[Terrapreta] Fwd: Terra Preta and Ants

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Kevin,

Ask Dr. Reddy, but I think he said he washed the charcoal (of ash) before putting it in alkaline soil, just to avoid the adding the alkalinity of the ash into already alkaline soil.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kevin Chisholm<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net> 
  To: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
  Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:43 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Fwd: Terra Preta and Ants


  Dear Gerald

  Gerald Van Koeverden wrote:
  > I realize that activated charcoal is many times more active than 
  > untreated charcoal.  But I assume the difference in their activity is 
  > just a matter of degree.  
  >
  > I welcome any suggestions on what anybody thinks might better explain 
  > the apparent - however limited - insecticidal activity of charcoal.

  One thought that immediately came to mind was the change in pH caused by 
  the ash. However, Dr. Reddy's test was in an alkaline soil. It may be 
  that the alkaline soil didn't have as high a pH as would the ash 
  associated with the char. If it was the pH of the ash that repelled the 
  ants, the effect would likely be short lived, in that possible KOH would 
  carbonate in the air to K2CO3, which would have a pH similar to alkaline 
  soil.

  Another thought is that it might be the ash itself which is acting the 
  way that diatomaceous earth is supposed to act.

  A very simple test would be to wash the char to remove ash and soluble 
  potassium compounds. If the char still repelled ants, then the mechanism 
  could be lipid adsorption, as you suggested in a previous post.

  Best wishes,

  Kevin
  >
  >
  >
  > On 13-Dec-07, at 9:23 PM, Edward Someus wrote:
  >
  >> Dear Gerrit
  >>  
  >> Thanx for this interesting paper.
  >>  
  >> TECHNICAL NOTICE:
  >> Activated charcoal (from gas mask 300 mesh about 50 micron) is very 
  >> much different than TP.
  >>  
  >> Activated charcoal is an aggressive - powerful absorbent with 
  >> specific surface area BET 650-1200 m2/g, while TP is mild with 
  >> specific surface area BET 25-100 m2/g, As far as I know CALCON Carbon 
  >> tried to put in activated carbon to soil since long time, but was not 
  >> successful.
  >>  
  >>  
  >>
  >> Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer)
  >> Terra Humana Clean Tech Ltd. (ISO 9001/ISO 14001)
  >> 3R Environmental Technologies Ltd. 
  >> ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
  >> TEL handy:  +(36-20) 201 7557
  >> TEL / FAX:   +(36-1) 424 0224
  >> TEL SKYPE phone via computer:  Edward Someus
  >> 3R TERRACARBON:   *_http://_**www.terrenum.net*  
  >> <http://www.terrenum.net%A0<http://www.terrenum.net%a0/>>
  >> 3R CLEANCOAL ENERGY: *http://www.nvirocleantech.com* 
  >> <http://www.nvirocleantech.com/<http://www.nvirocleantech.com/>>**
  >> _** <http://www.vertustechnologies.com/<http://www.vertustechnologies.com/>>_ 
  >> /-------Original Message-------/
  >>  
  >> /*From:*/ Gerald Van Koeverden <mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>>
  >> /*Date:*/ 2007.12.14. 2:06:44
  >> /*To:*/ Terra Preta <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
  >> /*Subject:*/ [Terrapreta] Fwd: Terra Preta and Ants
  >>  
  >> According to a old research study, the effect of charcoal fines on 
  >> insects might have nothing to do with it as an abrasive or 'scratchy' 
  >> medium.  This article shows that certain dusts actually absorb the 
  >> lipoid layer from the exoskelton of bees without any apparent 
  >> abrasion, resulting in the dehydration of the insect.
  >>
  >> The results (Table 1) show 
  >> that all the dusts effected an increase in the rate of water-loss of 
  >> the dead bees; that 
  >> the three most effective dusts were silica gel, Almicide and 
  >> activated charcoal, the
  >> common physical property of these materials being their capacity to 
  >> act as powerful 
  >> absorbents; that Bentonite and activated charcoal, both soft 
  >> materials, were more 
  >> effective than carborundum, which is hard and highly abrasive. These 
  >> facts again 
  >> indicate that abrasion is not an important factor in the action of 
  >> these dusts in dis- 
  >> rupting the waterproofing layers, and suggest furthermore that they 
  >> may act by 
  >> adsorbing the lipoid material. 
  >>
  >> http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/32/1/95.pdf<http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/32/1/95.pdf>
  >>
  >> Gerrit
  >>
  >> Begin forwarded message:
  >>
  >> *From: *Gerald Van Koeverden <vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> <mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>>>
  >> *Date: *December 13, 2007 12:55:28 PM EST (CA)
  >> *To: *Saibhaskar Nakka <saibhaskarnakka at gmail.com<mailto:saibhaskarnakka at gmail.com> 
  >> <mailto:saibhaskarnakka at gmail.com<mailto:saibhaskarnakka at gmail.com>>>
  >> *Cc: *terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:*terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  >> <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>, terrapreta-owner at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta-owner at bioenergylists.org> 
  >> <mailto:terrapreta-owner at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta-owner at bioenergylists.org>>
  >> *Subject: **Re: [Terrapreta] Terra Preta and Ants*
  >>
  >> Dr. Reddy,
  >>
  >> The fines of rice hull ash mixed in with stored seeds are very 
  >> effective in controlling weevils.  (Rice hulls have a very high 
  >> silica content.)  The sharp silica structures in the ash scratch the 
  >> cutinous exoskelton of the first insects to emerge, leaving them to 
  >> dessicate before they can breed and lay more eggs.  (I was taught 
  >> this in a weekend course by the Tropical Products Insitute, U.K.)
  >>
  >> DE (diatomaceous earth) will do the same because of its silica edges, 
  >> and is also used for pest control in storing grain.  It is also 
  >> recommended to add DE to compost for the same reason:  it is not 
  >> injurious to beneficials in the process like the digestive tract of 
  >> worms, but will control certain pests that like to colonize compost 
  >> piles.
  >>
  >> Could it be that the charcoal has similar cystalline structures which 
  >> keeps the insects away...in fear of being scratched to death...?
  >>
  >> Gerald
  >>
  >>
  >> On 13-Dec-07, at 12:06 PM, Saibhaskar Nakka wrote:
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >>     Dear All,
  >>
  >> After the successful field trials in Alkaline 
  >> soils http://e-alkalinesoilsterrapreta.blogspot.com/<http://e-alkalinesoilsterrapreta.blogspot.com/> , I have just 
  >> started second season TP experiments on a small scale on our Roof top 
  >> in small pots http://e-terrapretarooftopexp.blogspot.com/<http://e-terrapretarooftopexp.blogspot.com/>. The 
  >> charcoal is exclusively from use of Magh-1 woodgas or smoke burner 
  >> stove http://e-smokeburnerstove.blogspot.com/<http://e-smokeburnerstove.blogspot.com/> designed by me. I would 
  >> like to share some of my immediate observations.
  >>
  >> One day after establishing pots and the seed with soil and charcoal 
  >> and only soil. I have sowed brinjal seeds in the 6 with charcoal + 
  >> soil and 6 only soil. To my surprise I saw that in the three control 
  >> pots the seeds were eaten away by small red ants. The six pots with a 
  >> mix of about 30% charcoal were untouched by ants. In TP practice the 
  >> chances of germination of the seed with out any loss to creatures 
  >> like ants is minimized. I thought this is the first direct benefit 
  >> of using charcoal. On day two I saw that all the pots without 
  >> charcoal are with small red ants. There is not a single ant in the 
  >> pot with charcoal addition. 
  >>
  >> Although I love ants, to avoid ants eating away the seeds sown, we 
  >> could always add some charcoal along with the seeds. Second important 
  >> application is that in the Vermicompost pits some ants eat away the 
  >> earthworms to avoid such problem and for value addition to the 
  >> compost to create a habitat for microbes, we could as well add charcoal.
  >>
  >> From web I learnt that those you want to avoid toxic chemicals are 
  >> using charcoal and diatomous earth as a repellant for ants. For 
  >> photographs please see the blog below.
  >>
  >> http://e-terrapretarooftopexp.blogspot.com/<http://e-terrapretarooftopexp.blogspot.com/>
  >>  
  >> I would like to know from your experiences what could be the other 
  >> impacts in using Charcoal to the living things existing in soil.
  >>
  >>
  >> Dr. N. Sai Bhaskar Reddy
  >>  
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  >>
  >>  
  >>
  >> 
  >>
  >
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