[Terrapreta] volatile matter and char

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Kevin,

How does your your last sentence ...

"This latter reference


  Analysis of a Hormesis Effect in the Leukemia-Caused Mortality Among
  Atomic Bomb Survivors


confirms the existence of the hormesis effect.",

confirm or even show the hormesis effect of charcoal borne (in VM) soil toxins in or on soil or any living biota or the hormesis effect of soil biota in the presence of charcoal toxins?  How is there any connection?  This is a weak inductive argument.  Is there any way you can demonstrate this (confirming one confirms the other)?

Based on the assumption that hormesis in biomass-to-soil applies, is there anything you can predict, that is demonstrable?  Test for the failure of that "new" predicted cause-and-effect and you will support a growing hypothesis, that hormesis has an effect in the use of charcoal as a soil amendment.  Get more people to see and repeat your work, publish a report of this under review by peer scientists, develop new experiments to validate further that hormesis is in effect, and then it will begin to become an accepted theory (and categorically falsifiable by a single failed prediction).

Until then, what you suggest it is a story and an inappropriate generalization, which is potentially totally false.

Regards,

SKB

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kevin Chisholm<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net> 
  To: Greg and April<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> 
  Cc: 'Terrapreta Preta'<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 2:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] volatile matter and char


  Dear Greg

  Very good point!

  See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis>
  and
  http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/bher/2001/00000007/00000004/art00016<http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/bher/2001/00000007/00000004/art00016>

  This latter reference


    Analysis of a Hormesis Effect in the Leukemia-Caused Mortality Among
    Atomic Bomb Survivors


   confirms the existence of the hormesis effect.

  Best wishes,

  Kevin
  Greg and April wrote:
  > Just thinking out loud -
  >  
  > It occurs to me, that VM like methanol ( wood alcohol is considered a 
  > part of VM is it not? ) while toxic to some forms of life, is used as 
  > food by other forms of life, indeed many plants are able to use it to 
  > take up carbon at elevated temperatures when the stoma are normally 
  > closed to conserve moisture within the plant.
  >  
  > Further, many types of microbial life find methanol to be a feast of 
  > sorts, and even when high proof methanol is spilled, it's only the 
  > immediate area of the spill that is killed off, but, within a  few 
  > days microbes are moving back in to make use of the new food supply 
  > with fungi soon to follow.
  >  
  > Could it be, that what we believe to be a toxic VM, is just that when 
  > in concentration, but can actually be microbial food when 
  > diluted down, and all we have to do, is provide the right nutrients 
  > for the microbes to use the VM as food?    Nutrients that might be 
  > found in most any compost pile?
  >  
  >  
  > Greg H.
  >  
  >
  >     ----- Original Message -----
  >     *From:* Michael Antal <mailto:mantal at hawaii.edu<mailto:mantal at hawaii.edu>>
  >     *To:* 'Terrapreta Preta' <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
  >     *Cc:* 'Gabor Varhegyi' <mailto:varhegyi at chemres.hu<mailto:varhegyi at chemres.hu>>
  >     *Sent:* Friday, December 21, 2007 18:01
  >     *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] volatile matter and char
  >
  >     There is no mystery associated with the chemical composition of
  >     volatile matter (VM).  As discussed in our publications and
  >     others, VM is composed of carboxylic, carboxylic anhydride,
  >     lactone, hydroquinone, phenolic, carbonylic, quinonic, ether, and
  >     pyrone functional groups attached to a carbon backbone.  At
  >     elevated temperatures (typically above 400 C) these groups undergo
  >     thermal cleavage and form CO2, CO, H2, H2O and CH4 and (at low
  >     temperatures) other organic compounds.  As Gerrit states below,
  >     the VM content of charcoal is largely a product of the pyrolysis
  >     process itself.
  >
  >      
  >
  >     If Edward Someus were to take the trouble to read our
  >     publications, he would realize that his remarks below (concerning
  >     our work) are nonsense.
  >
  >      
  >
  >     Merry Christmas to all!   
  >
  >      
  >
  >     Michael J. Antal, Jr.
  >
  >     Coral Industries Distinguished Professor of Renewable Energy Resources
  >
  >     Hawaii Natural Energy Institute
  >
  >     POST 109, 1680 East-West Rd.
  >
  >     Honolulu, HI 96822
  >
  >      
  >
  >     phone: 808/956-7267
  >
  >     fax: 808/956-2336
  >
  >     _www.hnei.hawaii.edu_
  >
  >      
  >
  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  >
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