[Terrapreta] Economics of biochar

[Rick Davies]

Hi Michael

The second last sentence of your post below interested me the most, that
Best Energies think they could produce biochar for A$200 a tonne. That is
cheap by comparison with other quotes I have seen so far

On my theme of selling each kg of biochar twice, I suspect they could get up
to A$100 a tonne from carbon offset sales, if the superiority of biochar as
an means of offsetting was sold very well.

You said that Best Energy could not find a market for the physical biochar,
but what about  the market being met by Malaysian imported charcoal. Do you
know what its landed in Australia cost is. Would it be more or less than
A$100 per tonne? (I would also be interested to know how renewable the
Malaysian source of biomass is.)

PS: Re Bioregional's quotes for their cheapest char (UK£300) I have now
asked them if this price is determined by a cost floor they cant go below
(because of the technology being used), or bythe availability of alternative
purchasers who will pay that price £300

regards, rick davies





> -----
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:05:51 +1100
> From: "Michael Bailes" <michaelangelica at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] The economics of biochar
> To: Terrapreta <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <7dcba7be0712292205j4a066755j4d10c7625e6155f2 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Fascinating and detailed post Rick thanks
> Thanks for the links too.
>
> It worries me that we are still considering using charcoal made by
> traditional methods. (Even coppicing which probably needs to continue to
> preserve the coppiced forests).
> Making charcoal by these methods is wasteful and polluting.
> Here charcoal costs $AUD$4,000 a tonne (imported from Malaysia). Is very
> hard to come by even in nurseries. A local "charcoal chicken" shop has
> promised me a 20K bag for "around $20" I have yet to nail him down on this
> offer.
>
> In my opinion the only way TP can work well, to halt or slow global
> warming,
> is if it is made by pyrolysis and the energy and/or bio-oils harvested.
>
> To save transporting costs the pyrolysis charcoal there should be a small
> plant at every council Tip/dump..It would't hurt councils to give it away.
> they could havest the carbon credits and would save on landfill costs +
> sell
> the electricity produced. The charcoal produced  could be used on council
> parks and playing fields to save water and fertiliser costs.
> To my knowlege no pyrolisis unit has been set up anywhere except in the
> Phillipines (with rice hull char?)
> BEST Energies (Aust.) hopes their $5Mil pyrolosis plant will produce char
> at
> about AUD $200 a tonne. Unfortunately they can't prove that, for at the
> moment there is no large market for pyrolysis char or char of any kind in
> Australia.
>
> On 29/12/2007, Rick Davies <rick.davies at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all
> >
> > I have started to look into how I could buy carbon offsets that would
> > compensate for the CO2 generated by my international airflights each
> year.
> > One of those is a London-Melbourne return trip.  According to
> ClimateCare
> > in the UK (http://www.climatecare.org/) the total mileage of this
> >
>
>
> --
> Michael the Archangel
>
> "You can fix all the world's problems in a garden. . . .
> Most people don't know that"
> FROM
> http://www.blog.thesietch.org/wp-content/permaculture.swf
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> /attachments/20071230/92b2b22f/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:21:17 -0700
> From: Duane Pendergast <still.thinking at computare.org>
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Carbon emissions show sharp rise
> To: 'Frank Teuton' <fteuton at videotron.ca>,      "'Sean K. Barry'"
>        <sean.barry at juno.com>, Richard.Black-INTERNET at bbc.co.uk
> Cc: 'terrapreta' <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> Message-ID:
>
>  <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAbxxJInXmQU6ZPRDFG1n46MKAAAAQAAAAGPSCqDkflU6AHkb3HEa4fQEAAAAA@
> computare.org>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Right on Frank! That's a two dollar response - not jut two cents worth.
> Sean
> did miss the depletion of land surface carbon reservoirs that is taking
> place. In some parts of the world humans gather every scrap of wood they
> can
> find for cooking and heating. In others, coal is used in terribly
> inefficient open stoves. I've lived in that world myself during my youth
> in
> the forests of central Alberta. We had no electricity in those days and
> converted substantial tracts of land from standing biomass to wood for
> fuel.
> We also used some coal. The land was ultimately converted to agriculture
> with little carbon sink remaining. Rural electrification projects changed
> the scene substantially starting about the middle of the last century.
>
>
>
> Let me suggest that the provision of an efficient microwave oven and
> inductive hot plate along with the nuclear power plants and wires need to
> power the appliances could go a long way toward lifting billions of people
> from the poverty cycle that makes them dependent on the desecration of
> standing carbon sinks and  greenhouse gas extravagant fossil fuel use.
>  That
> in turn would make more biomass available for use in terra preta
> production
> and agricultural enhancement.
>
>
>
> Happy New Year to all.
>
>
>
> Duane Pendergast
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Frank Teuton
> Sent: December 29, 2007 11:03 PM
> To: Sean K. Barry; Richard.Black-INTERNET at bbc.co.uk
> Cc: terrapreta
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Carbon emissions show sharp rise
>
>
>
> Sean et al;
>
>
>
> I fail to grasp the reasoning behind the idea that emptying biologically
> active carbon reservoirs (soil OM, trees, prairies, etc.) is somehow
> fundamentally different than emptying biologically inert (relatively
> speaking) reservoirs, coal, oil, gas, peat, etc.
>
>
>
> The simple truth is, we can only manage atmospheric CO2 levels by learning
> to manage all the possible reservoirs of carbon, including biological
> reservoirs as well as inert reservoirs. Pumping relatively inert carbon
> underground is one way, which includes terra preta approaches...aiming to
> increase SOM and standing biomass via perennial plant strategies,
> including
> forest and prairie approaches, is another....stimulating phytoplankton in
> the ocean is of course still another.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, it is simple arithmetic that depleting existing
> biological
> reservoirs further is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
> Increased deforestation for, say, charcoal production where the charcoal
> is
> then subsequently burned for fuel empties the forest bioreservoir of
> carbon,
> which is not a good thing. We will need to optimize all reservoirs of
> carbon
> to make this thing work.
>
>
>
> It is my understanding that up until about 1950 the majority of the
> increase
> in atmospheric carbon was due to human land use impacts, eg,
> deforestation,
> tillage, desertification, and similar phenomena. Not until about 1950 did
> fossil fuel burning exceed biome degradation as the leading anthropogenic
> cause of atmospheric CO2 increase. If the argument is that we need to put
> back the C, I would suggest we need to put it back not only into inert
> carbon forms in the ground, but also back into the living biological
> systems
> from whence a great deal of it was also taken.
>
>
>
> It isn't one or the other, but what combinations of both can be made to
> work.
>
>
>
> My two cents,
>
>
>
> Frank Teuton
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> /attachments/20071230/112faf48/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 11:47:49 -0500
> From: "Ryan Hottle" <ry.hottle at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Terrapreta] Dovetailing Cellulosic Ethanol with Biochar
>        Production
> To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> Message-ID:
>        <b8ffc8380712300847p342d9b05w85110671970c3e9a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I am wondering about the possibility of combined cellulosic ethanol and
> biochar production.
>
> According to Wikipedia, cellulose production results in a "waste lignin"
> that, can "provide the energy for the process with some excess to provide
> electricity for the grid."  How about turning this waste lignin into
> biochar, making the process net negative in terms of CO2 produced?
>
> Look foward to hearing discussion on this.
>
> Thanks,
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ryan Darrell Hottle
>
> Ohio Peak Oil Action (OPOA)
> Co-Founder, Director
> www.ohiopeakoilaction.org
>
> Granville Relocalization and Sustainability Project
> www.granvillerelocalization.org
>
> 30 N. Rose Blvd.
> Akron, OH 44022
>
> (740) 258 8450
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> /attachments/20071230/7d379db5/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:10:48 -0800
> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Dovetailing Cellulosic Ethanol with Biochar
>        Production
> To: "'Ryan Hottle'" <ry.hottle at gmail.com>,
>        <Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> Message-ID: <001f01c84b06$ec8d2860$c5a77920$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Ryan,
>
>
>
> There are thermal and biological approaches to converting cellulose to
> ethanol. The biological processes include pretreatment steps (hydrolysis)
> that separate the lignin which could be used are fuel or bio-char.
> Typically
> the lignin is burned to provide heat for processing the alcohol. As far as
> I
> know there is no excess. The lignin would only be available if another
> biomass fuel such as straw or cornstalks was used to fuel the boilers at
> the
> plant. The thermal processes consume both the cellulose and the lignin to
> make a synthetic gas which is converted to alcohols using a catalyst.
>  Both
> approaches are being commercially developed.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Hottle
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 8:48 AM
> To: Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Terrapreta] Dovetailing Cellulosic Ethanol with Biochar
> Production
>
>
>
>
>
> I am wondering about the possibility of combined cellulosic ethanol and
> biochar production.
>
>
>
> According to Wikipedia, cellulose production results in a "waste lignin"
> that, can "provide the energy for the process with some excess to provide
> electricity for the grid."  How about turning this waste lignin into
> biochar, making the process net negative in terms of CO2 produced?
>
>
>
> Look foward to hearing discussion on this.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ryan Darrell Hottle
>
> Ohio Peak Oil Action (OPOA)
> Co-Founder, Director
> www.ohiopeakoilaction.org
>
> Granville Relocalization and Sustainability Project
> www.granvillerelocalization.org
>
> 30 N. Rose Blvd.
> Akron, OH 44022
>
> (740) 258 8450
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> /attachments/20071230/cd773e11/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:58:00 -0700
> From: "Greg and April" <gregandapril at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Marketing comment for TP. (was volatile
>        matterandchar)
> To: "Terra Preta" <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> Message-ID: <0e3401c84b0d$85a043b0$2101a8c0 at GREG>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I know a gentleman that on a whim tried charcoal in his aquaponic set up
> for a few weeks.    He said that he filled an onion sack ( mesh ? ) with
> charcoal ad tossed it in.    He didn't say what type of charcoal he used, or
> where he got it, but, he did mention that it took a few days for the
> charcoal to initially soak completely through - at which time it no longer
> floated, and retained water very well, and appeared to have great capitulary
> action.
>
>
> Greg H.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Sean K. Barry
>  To: Terra Preta ; Greg and April
>  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 13:07
>  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Marketing comment for TP. (was volatile
> matterandchar)
>
>
>  Hi Greg, Gerrit,
>
>  I see you mentioning rock wool and coir as wetting mediums in hydroponic
> growing.  Michael J. Antal mentioned once that Orchids are grown in Hawaii
> in strictly black carbon charcoal.  Has charcoal ever been used as the
> wetting medium in hydroponic growing?  Is anyone doing experiments trying
> it?
>
>  Regards,
>
>  SKB
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> /attachments/20071230/022c2c3a/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Terrapreta mailing list
> Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
>
>
> End of Terrapreta Digest, Vol 11, Issue 74
> ******************************************
>



-- 
Rick Davies (Dr),
Monitoring and Evaluation Consultant, Cambridge, United Kingdom.
Mobile:  (44) 07855 766 354, Skype: rickjdavies,
Email: rick.davies at gmail.com
Monitoring and Evaluation NEWS at http://www.mande.co.uk
Rick on the Road at http://www.mandenews.blogspot.com
Homepage at http://www.shimbir.demon.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /attachments/20071230/b16101a6/attachment.html