[Terrapreta] Fwd: Fwd: Global Carbon Cycle

[lou gold]

Duane,

It's a deal.

All best,

lou

On 6/6/07, Duane Pendergast <still.thinking at computare.org> wrote:
>
>  Lou,
>
>
>
> You do seem to be mis-understanding my words. I think the concept of
> building char from soil concept has great potential. It will need to be much
> more broadly applied than just a means of improving tropical agriculture.
>
>
>
> As Tom Miles suggested in another memo our long winded philosophical
> discussions may drive the guys who are doing the useful work away from the
> list. AD Karve likely unsubscribed for that reason. That would be too bad as
> a lot more practical work is needed to prove the processes. Maybe we should
> agree to disagree till we have a more concrete platform to support our
> hypothetical discussions – or go off list till we understand each other.
>
>
>
> Duane
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* lou gold [mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* June 6, 2007 11:07 AM
> *To:* still.thinking at computare.org; Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Fwd: Fwd: Global Carbon Cycle
>
>
>
> Hi Duane,
>
> Perhaps we are missing something from each other's messages? It seems to
> go round and round in a tedious way.
>
> Here's what I know: only a portion of the carbon "sunk" in a living tree
> is transferred to the sink of construction. A very large portion, considered
> as waste and slash is burned. For example, Brazil is a major emitter of GHG
> and 20% of its emissions come from burning the forest in the process of
> deforestation. The new plantation, if one is planted (very rare) takes a
> long time to recover the volume of CO2 that has been released. Also trees
> are planted as a crop which means they will be cut again releasing another
> increment to the atmosphere. The new growth sequestration and the volume
> sunk into construction never catch up with the release through
> deforestation.
>
> BUT, if all burning was converted into char that is returned to the soil
> that indeed would be an act of human industry -- one that might both improve
> agricultural productivity,  create a new local economy and reduce the need
> for further deforestation. As I understand it, that is the dream of Terra
> Preta.
>
> The question is how is the introduction of the new technology is to be
> financed and what will be the way that it can be made more profitable than
> illegal logging? An assistance fund somehow tied to a carbon credit scheme
> is Brazil's current proposal to the developed world. I do not understand how
> you see that approach as flawed? It's important to understand that Brazil is
> not Canada. There are 10s of millions living here on less than U$ 2 per day.
> It would not take a huge fund to "incentivize" a switch from a deforestation
> economy to a Terra Preta agricultural economy. Why wouldn't you (we) want to
> do that?
>
> lou
>
> On 6/6/07, *Duane Pendergast* <still.thinking at computare.org> wrote:
>
>             Thanks for reading it Lou,
>
>
>
> You say my submission sounds like the voice of industrial forestry. I wish
> it was, as in that case I might have been paid to prepare it. I was not. I
> submitted it as a Canadian citizen concerned that Canada 's forests were not
> given adequate recognition in the Kyoto protocol.
>
>
>
> As you can see the accounting method Canada uses for forest products
> assumes harvested trees are, in essence, burned on the spot releasing their
> carbon as CO2 back to the atmosphere. There is thus no incentive to try and
> contain the carbon in forest products as could be accomplished by accounting
> for carbon in forest products with ultimate conversion to biochar. I did not
> go there in the submission as I expected that just the concept of storing
> carbon in wood products would be too difficult a concept for our
> parliamentarians to understand.
>
>
>
> I was right. You might be comforted to know that the Parliamentary
> Committee, which was considering Canada 's commitment to Kyoto , showed zero
> interest in the submission. They did seem to get a modest grasp on the idea
> growing trees could absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. One step at a
> time.
>
>
>
> So far many proposed  actions related to greenhouse gas emissions take a
> very narrow view, protecting pet projects which might not have much to do
> with controlling greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Preserving "natural"
> forests and protecting them from human intervention is one of those pet
> goals coming from environmental organizations. Good luck with that.
>
>
>
> If we are to control greenhouse gases, then the needs of humans will need
> to be better integrated with the carbon cycle – and forests. Terra preta
> could be a breakthrough which allows, through human intervention, an
> increase in earths "capital" and overall productivity.
>
>
>
> I guess that could be the voice of human industry.
>
>
>
> Duane
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* lou gold [mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* June 5, 2007 11:00 PM
> *To:* still.thinking at computare.org; Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Fwd: Fwd: Global Carbon Cycle
>
>
>
> Hi Duane,
>
> OK, I read the submission. It in no way answers the assertion that more
> carbon is released into the atmosphere than is sequestered in construction.
> AND, whatever is  "sequestered"  in construction was  already sequestered in
> the tree  -- no gain there  but an enormous loss in the release of carbon
> previously
> previously in its forest sink. New growth in plantations does not offset
> it, especially since they are soon cut again in short rotations largely for
> paper products and short lived products from sawdust and wood chips.
>
> The submission sounds very much like the voice of industrial forestry.
>
> lou
>
>
>
> http://www.computare.org/Fora%20Input.htm   down the page at  "February
> 21, 2005 - Brief on the Role of Forests in Canada's Greenhouse Gas
> Inventory"
>
>
>
> Duane
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lou Gold
>
> My blogs:
> (English) http://lougold.blogspot.com/
> (Portuguese) http://visionshare-pt.blogspot.com/
>



-- 
Lou Gold

My blogs:
(English) http://lougold.blogspot.com/
(Portuguese) http://visionshare-pt.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/terrapreta_bioenergylists.org/attachments/20070606/be887c65/attachment-0001.html