[Terrapreta] http://www.pustaka-deptan.go.id/publication/as072065.pdf

[Ron Larson]

Thomas (cc Tom Miles):

    1.  Yours below is a very important contribution - saying that charcoal makers can craft the charcoal as soil scientists desire.

    2.  Fortunately, we have some very good soils scientists on this list, and others joining all the time.  I am convinced they can answer the question of what we should ask of charcoal producers such as yourself.

    3.  But the soils scientists need funding to come up with those answers.  I don't think the answer is either easy or universal.  I have talked to some soil scientists in Colorado who are held back only because of lack of funding.  I urge everyone reading this to talk to your elected representatives and national researchers who can control funding about the promise that seems to exist for biochar/terra preta and the world-wide need to get cracking on the needed soils research.  

  4.  New subject.  I have been trying to get a handle on the economics of terra preta soils - to better make the pitch for larger funding.  You have offered van loads for delivery near Atlanta/Kennesaw.  I don't believe you gave a price - but hope you can either give me one publicly or privately.  Prices from anyone anywhere in the world would be a big help in selling this concept to policy makers.

    5.  From anyone, there is also a need in estimating future economics to have a guess at a minimum char amount that might be applied (kg per sq. meter would be fine).  I think we might all agree that 10% to a depth of 1 meter is probably not the most economic treatment - even if it was a realistic upper limit..

    6.  I see a relative density of 40% for charcoal in this sort of mixed application.  Anyone prefer a different number?

    7.  For Tom Miles:  In trying to find some charcoal costs, I have seen a wide range ($10 - $260 per tonne).  But I also saw a plea from you for charcoal costs some years back on "stoves".  I didn't look extensively, but didn't see responses and wonder if you ever got some good numbers?  

Thanks to all in advance for any cost or application data.     Ron


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: thomas.beer at clorox.com 
  To: Ron Larson 
  Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org ; terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org ; tharaka pilapitiya 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] http://www.pustaka-deptan.go.id/publication/as072065.pdf



  As a guy that has worked with charcoal for many years in Kingsford, I can tell you that different raw materials AND different operating conditions give different characteristics in chars. Hardwood is different than softwood, and even different species (oak, poplar, mesquite, hickory, pine, ash, fir...etc) have different characteristics. We have done work with rice hulls in the past and the characteristics are very different from other chars made from different types of biomass, but this is to be expected. Different biomasses and different operating conditions make different chars. So, it seems that we should be characterizing the properties that we want from the finished char, then working backwards to specify the operating conditions and the species (or mixture of species) that give the characteristics (in the finished char) that you want. 

  It seems that we should start by defining what are the desired finished characteristics of the chars, and put some science to the advocacy. Char is not magic, it is produced like any other chemical reaction... with heat and time and pressure and moisture and reactants. Char can be produced to whatever characteristics that are appropriate, we just have to decide what is the target, then do some science around the effects of the characteristics on crop yields. 

  Thomas Beer
  Manufacturing Technology
  Clorox Services Company
  3900 Kennesaw 75 Parkway, Suite 100
  Kennesaw, GA   30144
  770-426-2419
  770-426-2428- FAX
  770-364-1079- Cell 


        "Ron Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net> 
        Sent by: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org 
        03/27/2007 11:44 AM 
       To "tharaka pilapitiya" <tharaka.pilapitiya at gmail.com>, <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>  
              cc  
              Subject Re: [Terrapreta]        http://www.pustaka-deptan.go.id/publication/as072065.pdf 

              

       



  Tharaka: 
      It was interesting to read the article you provided.  Thanks.  However, I think we still need more proof that rice hull charcoal is better than other types of charcoal - as only one type of charcoal was reported in this article.  I hope you can convince these researchers or others to try various types of charcoal. 
    
      I would be interested in hearing from anyone on whether they believe all the following comments on pages 2 and 3 by the article's authors ring true relative to charcoal advantages re rooting (and an extension to non-rooting situations).  Or are there other different explanations? 
    
        The higher number of visible roots and longer roots 
  of the cuttings grown on carbonized rice husk may be 

  attributed with its better water holding capacity and 

  drainage. Under such favorable condition, the plant 

  was provided sufficient air and oxygen for cell respiration 

  during the rooting process (Frenck and Kim 

  1995). The moisture in smaller pores served not only 

  for metabolic activities but also provided sufficient 

  humidity to avoid excessive transpiration (Karlsen 

  1997) and destructive temperature fluctuation that 

  may happen in the rhizosphere (Klapwijk 1987). 

       Aside from water holding capacity and drainage, the 

  better root initiation and formation seemed to have 

  relation with darker environment provided by carbonized 

  rice husk. Compared to other treatment media, 

  black color of carbonized rice husk may contribute to 

  darker rhizosphere environment. In this situation, the 

  root promoter (e.g. auxin) may be translocated and 

  accumulated at the basal part of cuttings where root 

  initials appear and these induce faster cell division 

  and differentiation for root formation (Moe 1988). 

   
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tharaka pilapitiya 
  To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org 
  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2007 11:06 PM 
  Subject: [Terrapreta]http://www.pustaka-deptan.go.id/publication/as072065.pdf 

  Hi SKB, 
    
  Rice husk the EVER BEST charcoal, pls reffer the abstract. 
    
  http://www.pustaka-deptan.go.id/publication/as072065.pdf 

   



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