[Terrapreta] Abstract on Charcoal in soil

[adkarve]

Dear Sean and Sai Bhaskar,
the vertisols in India are generally quite alkaline, with pH 8.2 and above, and yet they are highly fertile. We grow all kinds of crops in this soil, even those recommended for growing in pH 6.5, like most European vegetables and flowers. In my long career in agriculture, it was once necessary for me to get soil with ph 6.5 for growing export quality roses in a greenhouse. The European consultant, whom we had hired, insisted on it. Since we had only the vertisol at our disposal, I conducted an experiment by adding several litres of concentrated nitric acid to a bed of vertisol in the greenhouse, but there was absolutely no change in the pH. We then grew the roses in the existing vertisol and got good results. I therefore doubt, if the little bit of uric acid in the urine of a cow would have any effect on soil pH. Uric acid is a mild acid, which does not dissociate as much as the inorganic acids. The beneficial effect of cow urine on plants is due to the indole acetic acid from plants, that is excreted through the urine of herbivores. The indole molecule is not used up in the animal metabolism and therefore it is excreted. 
    Somebody also recently remarked that sugarcane required soils having pH 6.5. We grow a lot of sugarcane in our region on vertisolic soils and get good yield. I have been studying plants since 1956, and it is my experience that plants have a much larger range of tolerance to adverse conditions than animals. The reason for this wide range of tolerance is that a plant is rooted in one place and it cannot run away from an adverse situation like an animal. Therefore it has to survive under whatever conditions it faces.
Yours
A.D.Karve
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sean K. Barry 
  To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org ; Saibhaskar Nakka 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 8:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Abstract on Charcoal in soil


  Hello Dr. Reddy,

  I would avoid ash content in the charred material as much as possible when applying it to alkaline soils.  Ash is alkaline.  Charcoal which is made at a lower temperature than say 450 degrees C and with very limited oxygen will be better.  It will be only partially combusted or combusted to a lesser extent (consequently, less ash content also).  It may well contain more volatile matter and I think it will likely be more acidic than more fully combusted biomass.

  If it were possible at all for you to make a "proximate analysis" (and a pH test) of the feedstock and the resulting charcoal from different methods of making the charcoal, then you may be able to select the biomass material and the method to achieve the lowest pH, which will help neutralize the alkaline soils you are going to amend.  Additionally, you may be able to lower the pH of the soil by mixing in lower pH fertilizers with the charcoal when the amendment is made.  Talk to your countrymen, Dr. AD Karve about using cow urine as a part of the amendment.  I'm sure is contains uric acid and will lower the pH.

  There is some hope, I think, and perhaps there has been some research as well, which would show that carbon in soil can act as a "buffer" and it will help to neutralize the soil over time, anyway, even if the charcoal (or the amendment in general) is not acidic and is being put into alkaline soils. <- That might be an interesting research project for you to do, if you wanted to.

  Best of luck with your project.


  Regards,

  Sean K. Barry
  Principal Engineer/Owner
  Troposphere Energy, LLC
  11170 142nd St. N.
  Stillwater, MN 55082
  (651) 351-0711 (Home/Fax)
  (651) 285-0904 (Cell)
  sean.barry at juno.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Saibhaskar Nakka 
    To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org 
    Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:59 AM
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Abstract on Charcoal in soil


    Dear All,

    The present ongoing discussions are very useful and relevant to my present plan to treat Alkaline Soils with application of Terra Preta http://e-alkalinesoilsterrapreta.blogspot.com/ , yesterday I had been to Kothur Village, a V & A Programme village in Semi-arid environment (for more information see http://e-charcoalmaking.blogspot.com/). I explained the farmers regarding the use and application of Terra Preta for treating the alkaline soils. Before that some char pieces were brought for demonstrating the use and good qualities of char.  Using the high resolution imageries of Google the fields with intense alkaline soils were identified.  From those selected areas four farmers have come forward to try this method in their half to one acre size fields. Regarding the application, as there is abundant availability of Prosopis in the village, this is an easy method for them. The logistics and the cost of char was discussed, they were able to sell char @Rs. 0.2$ (USD) per kg. For applying about 1500 kgs of Char per acre, it would cost them about Rs. 300$ (USD). Which seems to be on the higher side for the poor farmers, so another alternative was making charcoal from the thin stems of Prosopis a wasted product in the charcoal making process and there was plenty of such dry twigs / stems of Prosopis available. Some farmers in the recent past trying to reclaim their Prosopis lands have used machinery and there are lots of heavy uprooted root stocks, with soil attached. They are burning such root stocks in the respective fields. This kind of burnt material consists of 

      1.. partial biochar 
      2.. Char, 
      3.. well burnt soil and 
      4.. plenty of ash
    The farmers have agreed to put this resultant material in their fields, which is of no cost and available in plenty. I am only hopeful that the above resultant material is acidic and would improve the soil quality. As the farmers have not started the process yet, the timely advice from you all would be helpful.

    The Link for photographs and above content: 

    http://e-alkalinesoilsterrapreta.blogspot.com/


    Dr. N. Sai Bhaskar Reddy




    On 5/16/07, Christoph Steiner < Christoph.Steiner at uni-bayreuth.de> wrote: 
      Dear Kevin,

      Terra Preta fertility is the result of increased nutrient availability
      (mainly phosphorus and calcium), lower pH and acidity, and soil biological

      Best wishes,
      Christoph 

      >
      > Dear Michael 
      >
      >
      > I might be missing something, but doesn't this test seem to test the
      > benefits of soil nutrients rather than the benefits of Terra Preta?
      >
      > 
      > Kevin 
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Michael Bailes wrote:
      >
      >> Abstract  Application of organic fertilizers and charcoal increase
      >> nutrient stocks in the rooting zone of crops, reduce nutrient leaching
      >> 

    -- 
    Dr. N. Sai Bhaskar Reddy
    Mobile No. 9246352018 _______________________________________________
    Terrapreta mailing list
    Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
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