[Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP

Sean K. Barry sean.barry at juno.com
Thu Nov 1 03:08:41 EDT 2007 

Hi Jim,

I think that your assumption about the most common constituents of plastics is incorrect.  Plastics are not synthetic biomass.  Yes, some plastics can be made from biomass, but indeed most are not, especially historically.  Plastics are mostly synthetically altered hydrocarbons from fossil fuel sources.  These do indeed contain significant enough amounts of heavy metals and halogens and they should absolutely not be introduced into the food chain by amending it into agricultural soil in any form.

The EPA has changed the laws regarding landfills, that they be "sealed" so as to prevent these specific types of toxins (heavy metals and halogens from plastics) from leaching into water tables.  The toxic emissions problems from burning plastics in centralized incinerators for heat and electric generation are more severe than for burning coal!  It is not hysterical to say that plastics are not a good choice for a carbonaceous feedstock for charring.  Would you propose that we put raw coal or "coked" coal into soil?

It is better to use plastics to make recycled plastic products.  This way we will prevent plastics (and the toxins they contain) from getting into the environment and we will reduce the amount of petroleum that gets used to make new plastic.  Right now, we can only hope for the day in which more biomass is used to synthesize new plastics.  Right now, more plastic in the waste stream was made from petroleum.

Another important consideration when making charcoal to amend into soil and form "Terra Preta Nova" soils is that its source is BIOLOGICAL, hence "biochar".  It's not just because the name has "bio" in it either!  One of the concepts that we are trying to develop in this group is to use biochar put into soil as a way to harvest carbon from the atmosphere and sequester it into the soil.  We are after a mitigation strategy for the green house gas problem.  To do this, the biochar feedstock must be "grown" biomass.  That biomass feedstock has to have been part of a living plant, which took CO2 out of the atmosphere when it grew, in order for it to have "harvested" any carbon from the atmosphere.

I hope this helps dispel the myth about hysteria towards not using plastics to make charcoal for "Terra Preta Nova".

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jim mason<mailto:jimmason at whatiamupto.com> 
  To: Edward Someus<mailto:edward at terrenum.net> 
  Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:44 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP





  On 10/31/07, Edward Someus <edward at terrenum.net<mailto:edward at terrenum.net>> wrote: 
           YOUR QUESTION I'm not sure whether the "coke" product in the article is analogous to the char from biomass pyrolysis.

          DEFINITELY  NOT,  plastic contains heavy metals and due to PVC mix input, Halogen contamination remainings can also be counted. 



  well, let's not be hysterical about this.  many plastics have nothing other than H, C and O in them.  just like biomass.  actually, many are much more pure in their H, C and O only than biomass.  biomass can have all sorts of problematic things in it, heavy metals included.  dosage, again, is what determines the poison, not the whether or not x is on the ingredient list. 

  staying clear of plastics with chlorine is wise, and noting ones that have formations that can degrade to problematic HCs is good, but otherwise, plastics are synthetic biomass, and made of exactly the same stuff.  

  we can play legos with plastics like we can play legos with biomass.  i'm just unclear how well the double carbon bond lego backbone of plastics degrades to useful char and the potential to get it into TP relevant forms. 

  or maybe we should consider plastic as already sequestered carbon.  it lasts for about forever . . . ;-)

  j



   


          Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer) 
          Terra Humana Clean Tech Ltd. (ISO 9001/ISO 14001)
          3R Environmental Technologies Ltd. 
          ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
          TEL handy:  +(36-20) 201 7557
          TEL / FAX:   +(36-1) 424 0224
          TEL SKYPE phone via computer:  Edward Someus 
          3R TERRACARBON:   http://www.terrenum.net <>
          3R CLEANCOAL ENERGY: http://www.nvirocleantech.com<http://www.nvirocleantech.com/> 
          <http://www.vertustechnologies.com/>
          -------Original Message-------

          From: Green Waste Recycle Yard<mailto:info at GreenWasteRecycleYard.com>
          Date: 2007.10.31. 18:28:15
          To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
          Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP

          Check out the plastic conversion work of Alka Zadgaonkar: http://www.goodnewsindia.com/index.php/Magazine/story/alkaZ/<http://www.goodnewsindia.com/index.php/Magazine/story/alkaZ/>

          I'm not sure whether the "coke" product in the article is analogous to the char from biomass pyrolysis.

          Bernie



----------------------------------------------------------------------
          From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org> [mailto: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org>] On Behalf Of jim mason
          Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:34 PM
          To: Bernie Lenhoff
          Subject: [Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP



          has anyone done any tests as to whether HC only plastics can be reduced to a char with relevant porosity for TP? 
         
                 
         


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