[Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP

[Kevin Chisholm]

Dear Sean

Sean K. Barry wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>  
> I think that your assumption about the most common constituents of 
> plastics is incorrect.  Plastics are not synthetic biomass.  Yes, some 
> plastics can be made from biomass, but indeed most are not, especially 
> historically.  Plastics are mostly synthetically altered hydrocarbons 
> from fossil fuel sources.  These do indeed contain significant enough 
> amounts of heavy metals and halogens and they should absolutely not be 
> introduced into the food chain by amending it into agricultural soil 
> in any form.
Would you be able to post an analysis of clean  polyethylene, showing 
the content of halogens, heavy metals, cadmimum and arsenic?

Thanks.

Kevin
>  
> The EPA has changed the laws regarding landfills, that they be 
> "sealed" so as to prevent these specific types of toxins (heavy metals 
> and halogens from plastics) from leaching into water tables.  The 
> toxic emissions problems from burning plastics in centralized 
> incinerators for heat and electric generation are more severe than for 
> burning coal!  It is not hysterical to say that plastics are not a 
> good choice for a carbonaceous feedstock for charring.  Would you 
> propose that we put raw coal or "coked" coal into soil?
>  
> It is better to use plastics to make recycled plastic products.  This 
> way we will prevent plastics (and the toxins they contain) from 
> getting into the environment and we will reduce the amount of 
> petroleum that gets used to make new plastic.  Right now, we can only 
> hope for the day in which more biomass is used to synthesize new 
> plastics.  Right now, more plastic in the waste stream was made from 
> petroleum.
>  
> Another important consideration when making charcoal to amend into 
> soil and form "Terra Preta Nova" soils is that its source is 
> BIOLOGICAL, hence "biochar".  It's not just because the name has "bio" 
> in it either!  One of the concepts that we are trying to develop in 
> this group is to use biochar put into soil as a way to harvest carbon 
> from the atmosphere and sequester it into the soil.  We are after a 
> mitigation strategy for the green house gas problem.  To do this, the 
> biochar feedstock must be "grown" biomass.  That biomass feedstock has 
> to have been part of a living plant, which took CO2 out of the 
> atmosphere when it grew, in order for it to have "harvested" any 
> carbon from the atmosphere.
>  
> I hope this helps dispel the myth about hysteria towards not using 
> plastics to make charcoal for "Terra Preta Nova".
>  
> Regards,
>  
> SKB
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* jim mason <mailto:jimmason at whatiamupto.com>
>     *To:* Edward Someus <mailto:edward at terrenum.net>
>     *Cc:* terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
>     <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:44 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP
>
>
>
>     On 10/31/07, *Edward Someus* <edward at terrenum.net
>     <mailto:edward at terrenum.net>> wrote:
>
>          YOUR QUESTION I'm not sure whether the "coke" product in the
>         article is analogous to the char from biomass pyrolysis.
>          
>         *DEFINITELY  NOT*,  plastic contains heavy metals and due to
>         PVC mix input, Halogen contamination remainings can also be
>         counted.
>
>
>
>     well, let's not be hysterical about this.  many plastics have
>     nothing other than H, C and O in them.  just like biomass. 
>     actually, many are much more pure in their H, C and O only than
>     biomass.  biomass can have all sorts of problematic things in it,
>     heavy metals included.  dosage, again, is what determines the
>     poison, not the whether or not x is on the ingredient list.
>
>     staying clear of plastics with chlorine is wise, and noting ones
>     that have formations that can degrade to problematic HCs is good,
>     but otherwise, plastics are synthetic biomass, and made of exactly
>     the same stuff. 
>
>     we can play legos with plastics like we can play legos with
>     biomass.  i'm just unclear how well the double carbon bond lego
>     backbone of plastics degrades to useful char and the potential to
>     get it into TP relevant forms.
>
>     or maybe we should consider plastic as already sequestered
>     carbon.  it lasts for about forever . . . ;-)
>
>     j
>
>
>
>      
>
>         Sincerely yours: Edward Someus (environmental engineer)
>         Terra Humana Clean Tech Ltd. (ISO 9001/ISO 14001)
>         3R Environmental Technologies Ltd.
>         ADDRESS: H-1222 Budapest, Szechenyi 59, Hungary
>         TEL handy:  +(36-20) 201 7557
>         TEL / FAX:   +(36-1) 424 0224
>         TEL SKYPE phone via computer:  Edward Someus
>         3R TERRACARBON:   *_http://_**www.terrenum.net* 
>         3R CLEANCOAL ENERGY: *http://www.nvirocleantech.com*
>         <http://www.nvirocleantech.com/> **
>         _** <http://www.vertustechnologies.com/>_ 
>         /-------Original Message-------/
>          
>         /*From:*/ Green Waste Recycle Yard
>         <mailto:info at GreenWasteRecycleYard.com>
>         /*Date:*/ 2007.10.31. 18:28:15
>         /*To:*/ terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
>         <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
>         /*Subject:*/ Re: [Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP
>          
>         Check out the plastic conversion work of Alka Zadgaonkar:
>         http://www.goodnewsindia.com/index.php/Magazine/story/alkaZ/
>          
>         I'm not sure whether the "coke" product in the article is
>         analogous to the char from biomass pyrolysis.
>          
>         Bernie
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         *From:* terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
>         <mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org> [mailto:
>         terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
>         <mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org>] *On Behalf Of
>         *jim mason
>         *Sent:* Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:34 PM
>         *To:* Bernie Lenhoff
>         *Subject:* [Terrapreta] plastic "char" TP
>
>
>         has anyone done any tests as to whether HC only plastics can
>         be reduced to a char with relevant porosity for TP?
>          
>
>         	
>         	
>
>
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>
>
>
>     -- 
>     --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     jim mason
>     website: www.whatiamupto.com <http://www.whatiamupto.com>
>     current project: mechabolic (http://www.mechabolic.org)
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