[Terrapreta] TP theft.
Sean K. Barry
sean.barry at juno.com
Thu Nov 22 18:27:52 EST 2007
Hi Kevin,
Pottery shards are the proposed evidence that the Terra Preta formations in the Amazon are man-made.
Regards,
SKB
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Chisholm<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
Cc: lou gold<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com> ; Terrapreta<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] TP theft.
Sean K. Barry wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Are there any shards of pottery in the eutrophied lakes in Canada?
Not that I know of. Why do you ask?
Do you feel that pottery shards are essential for TP to function as
intended? I haven't heard of pottery shards being found in teh Holland
Marsh, but it seems to work very well.
Best wishes,
Kevin
>
> SKB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kevin Chisholm <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>
> *To:* lou gold <mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com>>
> *Cc:* Sean K. Barry <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>> ; Terrapreta
> <mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:13 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] TP theft.
>
> Dear Lou
>
> lou gold wrote:
> > Hi Sean and All,
> >
> > Since Brazil is a poor place, especially in Amazonian rural
> areas, TP
> > most likely does get stolen.
> >
> > However, I recently saw something about "commercial mining" of
> it that
> > sounded very responsible. The guy extracted it but left the bottom
> > 20cm. It would grow "back to full depth" in 20 years. I'm
> suspecting
> > that eventually there will be specialty "nursery" plots growing
> "seed"
> > or "starter" TP for use in other locations, nearby and far away. .
> The above comment has enormous potential implications , if it is
> true.
> On the one hand, it may simply be a lie told by a devious Terra
> Preta
> Miner, (TPM) so that people don't get worked up when he takes their
> irreplaceable Terra Preta. Given all that has been said on this list
> about the char requirement for Terra Preta formation, it is likely
> that
> the TPM is a blatant liar. :-)
>
> On the other hand, if the TPM's observation is substantially true and
> accurate, it completely changes the fundamental formative
> mechanism for
> TP. There is a possibility that the TPM is telling the truth, and
> that
> Terra Preta can be formed naturally, and charing of biomass by Man
> was
> not an essential step in its creation.
>
> 1: There is a pond in front of where I live. In the Summer, pond weed
> drifts into a cove, and decomposes anaerobically to give a black
> goop on
> the bottom When stirred up, the water turns black. The pond weed
> is not
> consumed totally by pond life forms, but rather, a black material is
> left behind. It could be "black carbon."
>
> 2: In Northern Canada, there are millions of hectares of Humified
> Peat,
> where the the original sedges and mosses are decomposed to the
> point
> that little or none of their original plant structure remains. What
> does remain is a "black carbon-like" material.
>
> 3: Many Farmers drain swampy areas, and start a Market Gardening
> Operation, because vegetables grow so very well in the "black earth"
> that they uncover. Do a Google Search on "Terre Noire", "Terre Noire
> Canada", and "Black Earth". See also
> > http://www.blackearth.org/History/History.html<http://www.blackearth.org/History/History.html>
> In speaking to a Member of the Historical Society, the Community of
> Black Earth seems to be built on a eutrophied lake. However, there
> was
> indeed an Indian Community well established there, long before the
> White
> Settlers came. The water table is very close to the surface, and
> buildings of any size require pilings for foundation support.
>
> There is thus reason to hypothesize that Terra Preta was not man
> made,
> but rather, is a natural phenomenon.
>
> It is interesting to note that on Gerhards site
> > http://www.gerhardbechtold.com/TP/Belterra2.php?vers=2<http://www.gerhardbechtold.com/TP/Belterra2.php?vers=2>
> the Terra Preta locations are generally confined to depressions. It
> could be that these are sinkholes that were eutrophied. As a
> depression,
> they would be a great place for the Natives to dispose of their
> garbage
> and broken pottery.
>
> So, it just might be that the Terra Preta Miner has given a
> fundamental
> insight into the formative mechanism for Terra Preta.
>
> If you are interested in pursuing this further, perhaps you could
> inquire to determine how many of the Terra Preta Sites in your
> area are
> in low lying areas with a high water table.
>
> I would be very interested in, and appreciative of, any comments or
> observations you can make.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
>
> >
> > I think this is a very attractive story for our messaging --
> > "sustainable mining" with the TP growing back. It truly is sort of
> > mind-blowing in terms of standard popular expections about
> "dirt", and
> > therefore an attention-getter. And, as TP becomes more known and
> > valuable, it might be necessary to guard the original Amazonian
> plots
> > against theft or irresponsible forms of extraction.
> >
> > Happy messaging to all,
> >
> > Lou
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 21, 2007 10:33 PM, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
> <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>
> > <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Lou,
> >
> > I think I saw this way back, middle of 200, on a Cornell
> website ,
> > or EPRIDA, or Christosph Steiner. I'll see if I can find it.
> > They had a picture and described the soil as so valuable that
> > thieves come onto TP land and take it away to sell (the illegal
> > part is its not their land). It said also that if some TP
> soil is
> > left on the ground, that it regenerates, but over time. It
> is not
> > possible, either, to ship TP soil out of Brazil.
> > If one sat on 2 meters of the stuff, though, you would think one
> > could mine out the bottom meter and a half and sell it, while
> > still being able to grow crops. The world needs a whole lot
> more
> > soil turned into TP soil, though, more than all the TP soil you
> > could ever find in the Amazon rain basin. We are supposed
> to turn
> > France into TP soil many times over!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > SKB
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* lou gold <mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com>>
> > *To:* Sean K. Barry <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:56 AM
> > *Subject:* question
> >
> > Hi Sean,
> >
> > Where did you get the idea that lots of terra preta is being
> > mined illegally in Brazil?
> > I have only seen positive references about how leaving a
> depth
> > of 20cm allows it to
> > grow back. Have I missed something?
> >
> > Just asking so that we can all polish our messages.
> >
> > lou
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://lougold.blogspot.com/<http://lougold.blogspot.com/>
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/>
> > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/>>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/>
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>
>
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