[Terrapreta] Biochar Packing Strategies

[Robert Klein]

Hi Sean

Let us reply line by line to your concerns.

--- "Sean K. Barry" <sean.barry at juno.com> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> Everything you say is conjecture.  For you to say
> "... as proven by pollen analysis" is bullshit!  You

science is advanced by the process of testable
conjecture, also known as hypothesis.

I suggest that you use google scholar to run down the
appropriate abstracts on corn pollen.

> know this too.  Open air burning in a dirt pile,
> with no flames is absolutely the worst way to make
> charcoal from any biomass.  Without flame, the pile
> will conservatively exhaust 3% of the carbon from
> the biomass as Methane-CH4 gas.  I know you might
> not listen to this, because you don't give a shit
> about the chemistry or the scientific principles
> behind it, but 3% CH4 is more of a detriment to the
> atmosphere, than the benefit if even all of the rest
> of the biomass carbon was left in the charcoal. 
> That would not occur, either, because the dirt wall
> kiln will allow in more air than you think and the
> much of the biomass carbon will burn completely into
> CO2.
> 

Some remarkable assertions on your part and obviously
the direct impact will have to be evaluated.

In the meantime:

1  The methane will burn preferentially, and if not
consumed within the pile will escape into the
atmosphere and rise.  The best source of heat will be
the methane.

2  The heavier molecules will tend to be captured in
the dirt shell as they would in a forest fire or slash
and burn operation.  If they do not burn.



> Why don't you listen, read, and learn something,
> rather than spout off about how everyone agrees with
> your grand plan and your analysis?  I don't agree! 
> Lots or people on this 'terrpreta' list don't agree
> with you.  You keep saying we do on your stupid
> blog.  That is a total LIE!  Quit doing that!
> 

At the time I made any such comment, this was a very
sleepy group and you had not weighed in.  And you are
still the only person who has chosen to not agree so
far.

I did get this group covered on jerry pournelle's site
and the traffic on this site immediately took of.  I
will not claim the direct credit as it may be purely
coincidental.


> Look here: 
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane>
> ... It says (and this is not the only source which
> says this):
> 
> "Methane in the Earth's atmosphere is an important
> greenhouse gas with a global warming potential of 25
> over a 100 year period. This means that a 1 tonne
> methane emission will have 25 times the impact on
> temperature of a 1 tonne carbon dioxide emission
> during the following 100 years."
> 

The methane issue that has got you so excited is
rubbish.

Grade 11 chemistry teaches us that every square foot
of soil is producing biological methane, which mother
nature is obviously dealing with.  The balance heads
directly to the troposphere outside the circulating
system of our working atmosphere.

The principal source of human produced methane is a by
product of forest fires and slash and burn agriculture
and some enhanced biological production(rice paddies.

Then we have natural gas which we burn.

All leakage is either quickly consumed or heads for
the troposphere.

A biochar production protocol that primarily relies on
the burning of produced methane and other volatiles,
while generally minimizing the combustion of carbon is
our objective.

The described method at least promises to do the best
job at the uncapitalized agricultural level currently
enjoyed by perhaps half the global population




> What you propose is a seriously stupid idea, Robert!
>  I guarantee you, that if you ever try to do this or
> promote this ludicrous plan, the the Environmental
> Pollution Control Agency (EPA) will immediately show
> up and levy you with a heavy fine.  It is illegal in
> every state in the USA to knowingly release
> Methane-CH4 gas.  Your dirt-mound, root ball walled
> kiln, will be a ecological disaster, if you enact it
> on any large scale.  You CANNOT do this.  You should
> stop promoting this idea.  It is senseless and
> dangerously bad for the environment.
> 

Right now you are talking about EPA rules which impact
normally on non agricultural industrial processes. 
And considering the advent of factory farms and their
incredible biological waste problems, I wonder what
you are talking about.  Of course it needs to be
studied, but the promise is a lot greater than you
perhaps comprehend.  And an agency that permits the
spraying of raw manure on open fields does not warm my
heart(if that is their fault)


> At 'terrepreta', we do want to develop clean ways to
> make charcoal from the biomass of agricultural waste
> in agricultural fields.
> This plan of yours does not accomplish that
> objective.  Cease promoting this (would you please?)
> and join us in developing some other viably workable
> methods.

The only clean way of producing charcoal is to use a
double lung incinerator that will still be very costly
to the American farmer.

Every other method is going to produce likely as much
methane.  And hauling biomass twenty miles by truck is
very expensive.  A solution that costs hundreds of
dollars per acre will never be implemented here let
alone in Indonesia.

I have come back to the possibility of open field
earthen kilns even in the industrial world because the
transportation problem is totally minimized and the
earthen wall is likely going to surprise us in terms
of pollution abatement.  You must agree that we need
to find out.

It is still the only practical way that anyone has
proposed to date to achieve the end goal accomplished
long ago.   The fact that a seasons crop of corn will
produce a ton of biochar compares very favorably with
the ton of manure used by the traditional mixed
farmer.

Do you have a better way of doing this?


my regards

bob

> SKB
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Robert Klein<mailto:arclein at yahoo.com> 
>   To:
>
terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> 
>   Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:38 PM
>   Subject: [Terrapreta] Biochar Packing Strategies
> 
> 
> 
>   In my last post, 
> 
>  
>
http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/2007/09/developing-biochar-protocols.html<http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/2007/09/developing-biochar-protocols.html>
> 
>   we arrived at the conclusion that the one key crop
>   that can make biochar production feasible for
>   agriculture is corn. It is also apparent that a
>   naturally built stack without much work will
> produce
>   some biochar, certainly enough for the owner to
>   recognize the value of the product and to want to
>   improve his efficiency.
> 
>   The first need is to develop an earthen kiln
> strategy
>   that can hugely increase production. shoveling
> dirt is
>   an option, but likely very unsatisfactory,
> difficult
>   to control during the burn, and very labor
> intensive.
>   Digging a pit can perhaps help improve this
> situation
>   and may have been a viable option. however, the
>   average pit needs to contain ten tons of material
> and
>   a typical five acre field will need several pits.
> This
>   requires an incredible amount of additional labor
> to
>   execute properly. So although suitable for pottery
>   making, It is a much less practical approach with
>   field operations. And we still have to pay
> attention
>   to packing.
> 
>   This is were my understanding of the nature of the
>   corn root ball led me to the conclusion that much
> more
>   sophisticated packing strategies were available to
> the
>   farmer that hugely lowered the labor needed to
> move
>   dirt. The corn root ball consists of a poorly
> rooted
>   flat disc sitting on the top of the soil.
> Penetration
>   is less than three inches, while the disc itself
> is
>   several inches across. It is easily lifted in most
>   soils by the simple expedient of grabbing the
> stalk
>   and pulling.
> 
>   We suddenly have a packable source of biochar with
> its
>   own contribution to the earthen wall attached.
> What
>   was the farmer waiting for? The remaining question
> is
>   how best to pack the stalks and to simultaneously
>   build the outer wall of the earthen kiln. So far I
>   have imagined several packing strategies that
> could
>   work, although they all have to be tested.
> 
>   But I think that we can all agree that a stalk of
>   biomass with a brick attached is a great start. As
>   good as a box of Leggo.
> 
>   I see two strategies. One in which a windrow is
> build
>   with one side forming an earthen wall. Remember
> that
>   in order to achieve tight packing it will be
> necessary
>   to overlap the root balls at least three deep
> creating
>   a mud wall several inches thick. They may also
> have
>   packed other material among the stalks to improve
>   packing. I think that Cassava is particularly
>   suitable.
> 
>   A second windrow can then be build against the
> first
>   windrow on the non walled side. This then still
> leaves
>   you with the task of covering the exposed stalks
> with
>   dirt but primarily unto a flat surface. Any type
> of
>   variation of this packing approach should work
> very
>   well.
> 
>   The second strategy is to lay out a 12X12 square
> and
>   lay in packed layers at right angels to each other
>   with the earthen wall on the outside. We end up
> with a
>   well packed interior and an outside earthen wall
>   perhaps several feet high completely surrounding
> the
>   material.. A thin layer of dirt on the top of this
>   stack will then close the kiln.
> 
>   This is obviously the most attractive approach
>   provided the packing ratio can be maintained.
> 
>   In all cases, the burn is initiated by carrying an
>   earthenware platter (unfired) full of glowing
> coals
>   unto the top of the heap, dumping them unto the
> stalks
>   and then tipping the platter on top of the coals
> as a
>   shield, and then covering it all with dirt. A crew
>   then watches the heap for breakouts, in order to
> throw
>   extra dirt as needed.
> 
>   Observe that we have minimized the labor input
>   throughout. A lot of extra time will be spent of
>   getting the packing right, but that is not
> onerous.
>   Building a layer of dirt onto the top of the 12X12
>   heap will move perhaps a ton of dirt which will
> mix
> 
=== message truncated ===



       
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