[Terrapreta] scored

Fri Apr 11 19:21:29 CDT 2008

Thanks.  That makes sense. That explains why this phenomena of cows  
getting drunk on silage is only observed in the very early stages.

On 11-Apr-08, at 6:54 PM, Mark Ludlow wrote:

> Hi Geritt,
>
> Wine is turned to vinegar when Acetobacter, an aerobic bacteria,  
> converts
> the alcohol to acetic acid. When ensiling begins there are some  
> free sugars
> and wild yeasts that produce some alcohol, but there's also usually  
> enough
> oxygen in the mix to convert the alcohol to acetic acid.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gerald van koeverden [mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca]
> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 3:50 PM
> To: mark at ludlow.com; 'Philip Small'; 'Jim Joyner'; 'Terra Preta'
> Subject: RE: [Terrapreta] scored
>
> Yes, but I always thought that alchohol is also
> produced.  Have you ever been around cows that have
> gotten drunk on eating silage?  Or do they get drunk
> on the acetic acid?
>
> --- Mark Ludlow <mark at ludlow.com> wrote:
>
>> Geritt,
>>
>> Silage is a fermentation employing bacterial
>> fermentation that produces
>> lactic acid, not alcohol. The desired end result is
>> silage that is
>> some-where between 3.8 and 4.2 pH. The Lactobacillus
>> usually out-competes
>> everything as the environment gets anaerobic but
>> there is often some acetic
>> acid created from stages in the process that are not
>> stabilized. Either way,
>> the process terminates naturally when the pH gets
>> low enough and then the
>> lactic acid acts as a preservative.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org
>> [mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org] On
>> Behalf Of gerald van
>> koeverden
>> Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 1:31 PM
>> To: Philip Small; Jim Joyner; Terra Preta
>> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] scored
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> Alcohol is a preservative because it will kill most
>> microorganisms.  That's the whole principle behind
>> making silage - it ferments and 'pickles' itself.
>> You can only naturally ferment anything to about 18%
>> alchohol.  At that point, even fermenting yeast
>> can't
>> survive.  Jack Daniels - being distilled - is
>> probably
>> around 40% alcohol.  So you have a very potent
>> natural
>> biocide concentrated in the charcoal particles.  I
>> wonder how it would function in a compost pile?
>> Could
>> be problems...
>> You might have to first dump the charcoal into a
>> container and soak it in water.  The alcohol in the
>> charcoal should naturally be diluted by
>> diffusion....?
>>
>> Just guessing.
>>
>> Gerrit
>>
>>
>> --- Philip Small <psmall2008 at landprofile.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Unless you won't be using the soil productively
>>> right away, I would finish
>>> this charcoal in a compost pile for the month
>>> minimum, and make sure you
>>> have a good portion of green feedstock to balance
>>> the high C:N ratio. May
>>> have to turn the pile frequently at first to
>> prevent
>>> the pile from going
>>> sour, but better there than in the soil where it
>> is
>>> hard on the indigenous
>>> population. I would inoculate the mix with healthy
>>> compost tea, healthy
>>> garden soil, and such.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 9:33 AM, Jim Joyner
>>> <jimstoy at dtccom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just scored a ton of charcoal! It's all ground
>>> to a powder to pea
>>>> size. Just one little drawback: it has Jack
>>> Daniels whiskey in it.
>>>>
>>>> They filter all the fresh made whiskey through
>>> sugar maple wood charcoal
>>>> (then it gets stored in charred white oak
>>> barrels). They wash the
>>>> charcoal with water to get as much of the
>> alcohol
>>> out of it as they can.
>>>> They normally make charcoal briquettes out of
>> the
>>> charcoal left over but
>>>> I convinced them they should give me a ton to
>>> experiment with.
>>>> (Actually, they charged me $30). So, now I have
>> a
>>> ton of charcoal with
>>>> the very sweet smell of Jack Daniels.
>>>>
>>>> The fellow who loaded my truck ask me, "whatcha
>>> gon with it?" I told him
>>>> and he grimaced. Said they used to mix the
>>> charcoal with wood chips and
>>>> apply it as mulch until they found that it "kilt
>>> all the shrubs".
>>>>
>>>> So, I've got the charcoal setting out in the
>> sun,
>>> evaporating the
>>>> alcohol out of it, hoping it be will be OK when
>> I
>>> put it in the soil.
>>>> Any comments or suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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