[Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/oroffsettingfossil carbon usage

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Greg,

As for the Kyoto Protocols, it's just a rob Peter to pay Paul scam.    All nations ( rich and poor ) have to work on the problem at the same time - otherwise carbon credits just transfers the carbon debt ( and favors the economies of undeveloped nations ) and really doesn't accomplish anything.    

I don't think you understand how the Kyoto protocol is designed to work or how it can work.  Favoring the economies of undeveloped nations is the key to success with Kyoto.  Annex I countries, the developed ones, the primary source polluters of CO2, CH4, and N2O into the atmosphere, need to enlist the help (with pay) of the rest of the undeveloped world to not use any more fossil fuels, clean up the atmosphere, and find a way so that everyone on the planet can get and have the energy and the food they need without polluting.

It is a BIG task.

We have to pay to help convert the undeveloped countries economies on renewable energy and pay to do it here to.  Now.  This investment alone in off shore carbon sequestration will do more for our economy than anything else we could do.  The US could corner the market on renewable energy technology and global climate remediation technology and export it all over the world.  We could export that easier and better than democracy any day and we would make trillions of dollars doing it, instead of spending trillions of dollars trying to spread democracy.

Patriotic isn't good enough for this job, Greg.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Greg and April<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> 
  To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 12:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/oroffsettingfossil carbon usage


  Until people are willing to buy carbon credits for the cost of actually sequestering carbon - then actually sequester the carbon - it isn't going to happen, and it will be next to useless to try.

  As things stand, they are going to want to deduct the cost of sequester the carbon from their taxes, while actually only paying what it would cost to buy a carbon credit ( as it currently stands ), and as such it isn't going to happen, any time soon.


  The theory of buying carbon credits is just political flim flam that feels good but does nothing.


  As for the Kyoto Protocols, it's just a rob Peter to pay Paul scam.    All nations ( rich and poor ) have to work on the problem at the same time - otherwise carbon credits just transfers the carbon debt ( and favors the economies of undeveloped nations ) and really doesn't accomplish anything.    

  The undeveloped nations say they should have their day in the sun, but, where is the logic of building up a large economy based of the short term cheap energy of petroleum when they know that they are going to spend extra, in order to convert it to renewable?    They should be thankful for having the chance to build their growing economy's on renewable in the first place, and learn from the mistakes of the "developed" nations, and not go through the renewable teething pains that the US is.


  I've said it a million times, until people are actually willing to pay what it cost, to sequester carbon, it's not going to be profitable to do so.    Until it's profitable to sequester carbon, the only people who are going to do so, are those that have some moral conviction to do so, otherwise, you end up with a lot of Al Gore types, that do a lot of talking, but when it comes down to walking the walk, they are unwilling to leave their air conditioned homes, because it might be a little warm outside. 


  Greg H.


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
    To: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; lou gold<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com> ; Ron Larson<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net> 
    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 22:08
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] A reward system for eliminating and/or offsettingfossil carbon usage


    Terra Preta Members,

    'A reward system for improved agricultural and forestry practices that sequester carbon could remove the current CO2 overshoot. With simultaneous policies to reduce non-CO2 greenhouse gases, it appears still feasible to avert catastrophic climate change.'"

    Stopping the use of fossil carbon fuels is undeniably the only course.  Replacement of that energy resource is the cost.  Before fossil fuel moguls reap those profits, milked-out of the public at slowly ever-increasing prices, the use of fossil carbon has to almost become like the use of illegal drugs.  Those dealers need to go out of business (or adapt).

    My best idea on eliminating the use of fossil fuels is for the US government to sign the Kyoto Protocol, then pay an IRS tax deduction (or credit) to every US citizen and/or business who will buy carbon credits on the world carbon trading market.  Conservation, better insulation, hybrid vehicles, etc. are necessary too, but they can only lower the rising trend lines of GHG concentrations temporarily, and will NEVER reduce emissions (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox<about:blank>).  Homes, vehicles, and businesses could have their "carbon-footprint" audited and apply for credits up to that limit.

    Then, the government could reduce it's expenses by increasing the CAFÉ standards.

    What does anyone else think of this idea?

    Regards,

    SKB
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