[Terrapreta] Terra Preta Future Goals?

[lou gold]

Hey Sean,

China is adding a large coal-fired electricity generating plant at the rate
of one per week.

India just got world bank green light for one of the largest coal-fired
plants ever built.

Brazil announced today the discovery of what may be the third largest oil
reserve in the world.

etc, etc.

How would you stop this? With war? With catastrophe? With an amazing new
technology? But surely not with reason.

My thought is a massive publicly-funded war on global warming (subsidies for
retrofitting for energy efficiency, appropriations for R&D, etc) in order to
head off a painful recession. In other words, start taxing again -- big time
-- like in other wartime situations prior to Iraq. And gain popular support
through all the jobs that can be created.

lou



On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 7:39 PM, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com> wrote:

>  Hi Joe,
>
> Terra Preta Nova has to be on a massive world-wide industrial scale, like
> that of the biggest industries on the planet; mining, oil pumping, gas
> extraction, agriculture, transportation, etc. to even work.  We already
> handle an estimated ~40 billion tons per year (I think, this number could be
> checked?) of waste biomass in all of agricultural production.  Nothing is
> done with most of it but leave it to waste (net CO2 increase into the
> atmosphere).  Nature is recycling ~120 billion tons of waste biomass carbon
> every year, too.
>
> To offset total worldwide annual fossil carbon emissions of ~6.3 Gt yr-1
> to the atmosphere now, using just charcoal-in-soil, would require the
> production of ~3.1 tons of charcoal to put into soil, using ~12 Gt yr-1 of
> biomass (3.67 [w/w CO2/C] * ~3.1 GT yr-1).  This 12 GT of biomass is out
> there, annually reproducing every year now (and decaying every year).
>
> Additionally, fossil fuel energy use must be immediately curtailed and
> here is important point. We cannot just let others do one in lieu of we do
> the the other here.  I refer to the dirty little selfish game of someone
> else making charcoal so we can keep burning fossil fuels.  This is the moral
> trap issue with carbon sequestration (and it is also the freaking business
> model of the Kyoto Protocol, if you think about it?).  BOTH of these steps
> must be taken simultaneously and to the hilt, if we can.  The situation
> demands it.  The scientific evidence to date supports working theories that
> would predict a catastrophic outcome, if BOTH issues of carbon removal from
> the atmosphere (Terra Preta Nova style) and immediate curtailment of fossil
> fuel consumption aren't done on a vast scale, in a hurry.  Some undesirable
> outcomes are even certain, even if we act large scale and decisively now.
> The set of outcomes without immediate widespread ACTION to combat GW/GCC are
> way not desirable for the vast population of the planet.
>
> Everyone is going to feel the effects from progressing GW/GCC.  There will
> definitely be some who suffer more as a result of these outcomes.
> This can easily become "the moral question of our times".  Do we ignore
> the plight of billions of people around us, to service ALL of our personal
> needs any longer?  Or, do we recognize our correct behavior as world
> citizens and ALL of us combat GW/GCC with fervor and without selfishness,
> until the world is a better place to live in for everyone (even ourselves)?
> This seems an easy choice for me.
>
> Harvesting biomass for enough charcoal to bury fast enough plus
> provide some energy to replace the fossil fuels previously is a GREAT BIG
> JOB!
> It is a great big opportunity for energy providers that expect to be in
> business in the future, I think.
>
> Focusing on future goals and not stuck in analysis of "conjectures" about
> the past is a great idea, Joe.  I like it.
>
> Regards,
>
> SKB
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* joe ferguson <jferguson at nc.rr.com>
> *To:* Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>
> *Cc:* terra pretta group <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; Robert Klein<arclein at yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 14, 2008 4:49 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture
>
> In reply to this thread, I've long ago concluded that for the C
> sequestration goal to be significant, it must be carried out on an
> industrial scale.  By this I mean a scale comparable to the GWatt coal
> burning plants that are cropping up like daffodils in spring.  And this
> scale of operation will require a refined process that captures all the by-
> and co-products, including liquid fuels, heat, possibly electricity,
> feedstocks for other processes, what have you.
>
> By all means carry out the necessary research to determine whether the
> pottery sherds are important for other aspects, such as the agricultural
> effects.
>
> But I don't think we'll get anywhere by trying to reconstruct the specific
> process used by the ancients.  I will posit that there were several
> variations on the process  developed by them depending upon where they were
> in the development  cycle, and depending very much upon the materials and
> capabilities available to each individual village  that was involved.
>
> Let us focus on the goals.
>
> Joe Ferguson
>
> Sean K. Barry wrote:
>
>  Hi Robert,
>
> Again with this post.  Whatever the Indios did to make charcoal out of
> whatever they used DOES NOT MATTER TODAY!  When are you going to grasp
> this?  Recommending to make charcoal in earthen kilns (in the open air) made
> from corn stalks is a bad idea.  There is no way to do this without massive
> releases of Methane-CH4, which has been discussed ad-nauseum with you as a
> significant potential problem with this plan.  Also, just like there isn't
> enough corn grown in the world to make enough ethanol to supply the world's
> thirst for transportation fuel, there IS NOT ENOUGH CORN STALKS IN THE WORLD
> to make the amount of charcoal we need to form enough Terra Preta and/or
> make any kind of difference on agricultural food production or global
> climate mitigation.
>
> Move on.  Your past one idea (Earthen Kiln Conjecture) is too limited and
> problematic to be a solution or of any value to us, Robert.  That's my
> opinion and widely held in this group, I think.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> SKB
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Robert Klein <arclein at yahoo.com>
> *To:* terra pretta group <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 14, 2008 1:14 PM
> *Subject:* [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture
>
> Ihave reposted an article by David Bennet with Lehmann on Terra Preta
> publishedin 2005.  This outlines the most criticalinformation as well as
> describing the original scope of the Indian civilizationitself. It is at:
> http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/2008/04/earthen-terra-preta-kilns-and-pollen.htmlAgainthislays out the limiting factors and fully supports my earthen kilnconjecture,
> particularly the following quotation."There has been some pollen analysis.
> It suggests manioc and maize were
> being grown 2,000 to 3,000 years ago. In the pollen bank, these crops
> didn't
> pop up sporadically but in large numbers."
> Ihave also polished my description of the protocol and am
> activelypromoting  field trials.Firstly,the maize or corn exists in an
> environment that mitigated against its use forpurely food production.  There
> werealternatives far better suited. to the non terra preta environment,
> startingimmediately with manioc which I think is a rainforest friendly
> plant. Secondly,the only viable source of meat protein to these peoples at
> this populationdensity was through fish.  Withoutconfirmation, a pond with
> tilapia makes great sense. It was a staple for the Maya.The waste from the
> daily meal could be readily folded into any growing seedhill.  Human waste
> could simply have beenburied in the field itself avoiding any storage.  This
> is common practice to this day. Themaking of the earthen kiln is no more
> difficult than uprooting the dehydratedcorn stalks after harvest and
> properly stacking them to form an earthen walledkiln with a wall thickness
> of two to three root pads
>  and an interior of tightlypacked corn stalks.  Obviously, any otherplant
> material, including wood can be built into the stack as available.  The
> earthen wall nicely restricts air flowduring the burn phase and lends itself
> to optimization by changing the wallthickness.  It also minimizes the
> amountof human effort needed which is through the roof if you are attempting
> to coveror bury a ten ton pile of stubble or branches. Thisgives you a kiln
> with vertical earthen walls and a possibly domed top that canbe easily
> covered with earth.  Again,field trials will optimize this protocol very
> easily.  The kiln could be squared off or perhaps evencircular though
> unlikely. The only tool to this point is a strong back ortwo.  We have
> gathered several tons ofcorn stover over perhaps an acre of land with only a
> little more effort thanthat annually required to clear the field and burn
> the waste. Nowwe must fire the kiln.  The easy way isto take a clay lined
> old basket
>  and fill it up with coals from a woodfire.  Carry this ember charge to
> thecenter of the kiln top and tip the charge onto the exposed center and
> place thebasket as a cap to the newly forming chimney.
> More clay may be necessary to widen the chimney cap.  Throw more earth on
> top of this to preventbreakout of the fire.  Keep throwingearth on any
> breakout points that start.
> The chimney will serve to burn all the volatiles produced as the hotzone
> expands to fill the collapsing kiln until they are exhausted.  Thereupon the
> hot zone will cool off leavinga blend of biochar, ash and earth and some
> root ends for the next kiln.  And yes, we should have a lot of fired clay.
> Thebiochar itself will be a range of nonvolatile combustion products that
> willrange from even dried vegetation to activated charcoal following a nice
> bellcurve.  The material can be then gatheredin baskets and redistributed
> into the field onto the seed hills again reducingwastage and effort.
> Irealized originally that the only ancient plant that could accommodate a
> highenough volume of terra preta production was good old maize.  It just
> seemed an unlikely option fortropical rainforests. That is when I started
> looking for references to thepollen record.  The article by DavidBennett and
> Lehmann is one of those reverences that then emerged. Iwould like to get a
> full
>  spectrum of the pollen profile since it seems verylikely that while the
> fence rows held the food trees, it seems more likely thatthey also used a
> variation of the three sisters using some form of convenientlegume.
> Squashes also, of course, butnot nearly as important. Thekey point of all
> this is that a family can convert a field into terra preta inone short
> season, allowing them to repeat the process thereafter as necessaryuntil the
> field is completely transformed to depth.  Today, we can do the same thing
> using shovelsand a garbage can lid.
>
>
>
>
>
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