[Terrapreta] Ponder the Maunder

[lou gold]

Jim and All,

Yep, institutional change is really hard -- except as under a special crisis
approach (ie, big budgets). When the budgets suddenly appear everyone
scrambles to learn fast. I'm not there but I suspect that extension agents
were not talking about ethanol not too long ago. But things change.

And, yep, I surely know the problems you cite Jim and very much agree that
we've been losing the battle. But TP really made me hopeful and now I
welcome the words of Hansen. Change is not neat, but I think it's happening.
The money and markets can come from char. Truly, this is the BIG new
development. And I can talk to the average person about it. I've tried and
they are fascinated by the TP story in a way that I've never seen concerning
soils. There is a real power there.

OK, that cheer-leader talk. That's what I do. Thanks for your understanding
and encouragement.

lou

On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Jim Joyner <jimstoy at dtccom.net> wrote:

>  Lou,
>
> It think we do agree much more than we disagree. I also agree with Mark
> that the agricultural focus should be in the forefront.
>
> Even if Global warming is anthropogenic and even if we can reverse the
> problem, we still have bigger problems. If we could flip a switch and the
> CO2 would go  back to the level of 150 years ago, we would still have
> serious problems.
>
> When we look at, e.g, biodiversity, we are loosing the fight. When we look
> the related subject of water and water quality, we are loosing the fight.
> When we look at the amount of arable ground we have, we are loosing ground,
> literally. Much of the problem we have with these is just plain poverty, not
> enough to eat. (There is the problem of too many people but that one is a
> little stickier and harder to define, something we are not going to do much
> about here anyway).
>
> More than anything else, if TP doesn't turn out to have a major
> agricultural value, then, for all intents and purposes, we are not going to
> use TP to sequester CO2.
>
> In all the contacts I have with USDA Extension Service I've not found a
> single person who has ever heard of TP (except from me). The SARE people
> haven't heard of it and don't want to hear about it (much like they treated
> Organic 20 years ago. So put on your cheerleader suit and start pushing the
> sustainable AG people.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> Mark Ludlow wrote:
>
>  Hi Lou,
>
>
>
> I can't speak for others, but I believe, personally, that framing the
> discussion around carbon sequestration is a big mistake. Even today, the
> world is experiencing rapidly escalating food prices and the importance of
> making agriculture more sustainable and productive may well affect more
> people in this century than GHG.
>
>
>
> My personal interest is sparked by the notion that char adds to or at
> least helps to maintain soil fertility. It also will sequester carbon and it
> may also immobilize certain toxic substances; all positives, but all
> secondary to the improvement of soil fertility and the virtual rebuilding of
> soils in many areas of the world.
>
>
>
> The discussion of late, seeming to imply some form of New World Order as a
> solution for Global Warming, makes me at least a little nervous and I can
> see that it has a similar effect on at least a few others. Already, leaders
> of this way of viewing the future are informing members of the list what
> ideas are politically correct and which are anathematic. I don't remember
> being polled…
>
>
>
> If I want to be preached to, I'll try to find a preacher who's a snake
> handler, not just a snake oil salesman, if for no other reason than shear
> entertainment value. But actually, I would rather believe that every man is
> his own best preacher and that all of the jawboning, petty back-and-forth,
> and racing to gain the moral high ground does little to further the "cause"
> of Terra Preta.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org [
> mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org<terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *lou gold
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:47 AM
> *To:* Jim Joyner
> *Cc:* Terra Preta
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Ponder the Maunder
>
>
>
> Fair enough. I'll try to elaborate.
>
> Some of us believe that terra preta will make the world a better place.
> That is why I am on this forum. I have no hard evidence to prove that terra
> preta will make the world a better place but I have both feeling and faith
> that it will. If I doubted it or if I was skeptical I would not be here.
>
> I guess that I'm asking a parallel question of you because I know that
> there comes a time to put doubt aside and act. I *feel* that now is the
> time for terra preta and that the difference that makes the difference
> between now and other times (when we could not have cared less about terra
> preta) is our growing desire to remove CO2 from the atmosphere.
>
> How does it work for you?
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Jim Joyner <jimstoy at dtccom.net> wrote:
>
> lou gold wrote:
>
>
>
>  lou gold wrote:
>
> Please excuse my directness but I want to ask a personal question. Do you
> think that we can make the world a better place through endless doubt?
>
> No, of course not.
>
>
> Ok. Now, what is the good positive thing that you believe in for making
> the world a better place?
>
> I guess I don't know what you are looking for. Basically, I eat when I'm
> hungry, sleep when I tired; raise my kids; grow my garden. What else is
> there?
>
> Not sure I have any such beliefs. We'll either get it right or we won't.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
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