[Terrapreta] What fixed "acid rain" is what is working in the Kyoto Protocol

[lou gold]

Hi Mary,

There's pretty thorough page on it at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_trading




On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Mary Lehmann <mlehmann3 at austin.rr.com>
wrote:

> Sean,, I thought we paid low carbon emitters so that we could be high
> carbon emitters.  I really never did understand about carbon caps and
> credits.  Is there some article I can read that gets down to basics?  It
> always seemed to me that the people who owned the air commons were the
> public who had to breathe the air, so that emitting rights should be paid to
> them (us) but instead of selling them we could tear them up or use them
> ourselves if we are polluting, say by driving.  I.E. the whole thing seems a
> mish-mash of distributing ill-defined rights to big pollutors as if they
> owned the air commons by consent of the government.  Familiar.  Please clear
> up my confusion if you can.
> Mary
>
> ====================================================================================
>
> On Apr 17, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Sean K. Barry wrote:
>
>  Hi Gerrit,
>
> Did you know that the solution to the "acid rain" problem in the Upper
> Midwest of the US, was accomplished on a program of paying and trading in
> "emissions credits" between and among emitters?  Did you also know that
> elements of the Kyoto Protocol were developed based upon this proven working
> model?
>
> Coal fired power plants in the Upper Midwest of the US were known to be
> emitting high concentrations of sulfur oxides (SOx) and nitrous
> oxides(NOx).  Knowledge of this was by a simple, fast, chemical analysis of
> smokestack gas contents (unless you can't believe that gas chromatographs
> and mass spectrometers actually can work).   Lakes in area down wind from
> the plants were acidified, with no known natural source for the
> pronounced reductions in pH.  It was "killing" lakes that had existed in
> nature for millennia.  It was predicted by the models of air movement in the
> areas surrounding the coal fired power plants (simple geo/climate analysis),
> that the emissions could be the possible source for the acid buildup.
>
> The scientists thought that the emissions from coal fired power plants
> CAUSED "acid rain", because they said SOx and NOx in a rainstorm will
> combine with H2O to make Sulfuric acid (H2SO4) and Nitric acid (HNO3).  This
> was a well supported hypothesis then, too, like AGW.  The ACTION of cleaning
> up the "acid rain" was the experiment, because it was predicted by the
> scientists, that "scrubbing" the emissions from coal fired power plants
> would STOP the acidification of local lakes.  The acidification needed to be
> STOPPED!  Somehow this was obvious to everyone (scientists included), so the
> ACTION to experiment with their prediction was funded and commenced.
>
> The protocol for that experiment, which was done, also, at the same time,
> was simple; immediately to try and to fix the "acid rain" problem based on
> what the scientists said.  Emitters of SOx/NOx emissions had to pay into a
> fund (an Emissions Reduction Fund), prorated on their emissions, and until
> they ceased emissions.  The fund's "emissions credits", were then used
> exclusively by the same emitter companies to pay for developing the
> technology and putting SOx/NOx "scrubbing" equipment into their own plants.
> ALL of the companies had to share the "scrubber" technology with one another
> until the coal power plants of ALL companies were retrofitted.
>
> Because of the payments needed to the fund continued operations without
> "scrubber" technology, the companies operating the coal power plants had a
> strong economic incentive to do something about SOx/NOx emissions.  They
> also had access the funds to do that something.  When the retrofit was
> complete, then payments to the fund ended, so they ALL knew what to do.
>
> This program WORKED!  Acidification in the areas around the "scrubber"
> retrofitted plants STOPPED immediately when the emissions of SOx/NOx dropped
> and has not returned.
>
> Some of the competition were EARNING (unfairly, it was thought) "emissions
> credits" for having to put in "scrubber" technology when they were building
> a new plant and getting to pay for it from the fund (like China and India
> building ... new ... coal ... fired ... power ...plants!).  There was a lot
> of pissing and moaning going on around then about the ACTIONS that were
> mandated.  I think this program was set up by a US judge in a class action
> suit or an EPA suit.  The Canadians had a similar problem on the north side
> of the Great Lakes and some of the companies were on both sides.
>
> What the Kyoto Protocol does is ask developed nations (emitters) to pay
> into a "Atmospheric Carbon Reductions Fund" and to develop CO2 sequestering
> technology and share it with developing nations.  The value of the "carbon
> credits" in the fund will increase as the developed world enlarges the fund
> and the investment begins to work towards meeting the carbon reductions
> objective.  It is important that we develop "CO2 scrubbing" technology here
> in the developed US, but it is equally, if not more important, that we get
> that technology into the coal fired power plants in places like China, who
> is a very fast developing country.
>
> This Kyoto Protocol isn't about only "equal treatment" of ALL parties.  It
> levels things and applies "fair treatment" to ALL parties, depending on
> their participation in the problem, the solution, the places where growth in
> more problems is possible and preventable, and the on the impacts to ALL
> people.  Some people can, will, and should bear some financial burden, so
> that others may not suffer some more harse burdens like, heatstroke,
> homelessness, thirst, drowning, starvation, loss of family, or loss of life.
>
> Regards,
>
> SKB
>
>
> The Kyoto Protocol "carbon credits" are designed to be the same thing as
> the, to do the same thing, and provide the same incentives and ACTIONS, etc.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Gerald Van Koeverden <vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>
> *To:* terra pretta group <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2008 2:48 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture
>
> Global warming or not, air pollution is causing all kinds of pulmonary and
> other diseases both in people, animals and plants; ... remember acid rain?
> And as developing countries get more wealth, they too will follow in our
> footsteps...and make our collective 'footprint' on the environment that much
> bigger.
>
> We have to figure out how we are going to not only feed more people with
> less land and more expensive inputs, but also facilitate their travel,
> electrical generation, etc. such that our footprint doesn't get so big that
> we destroy ourselves in an ocean and sky of our own poisons.
>
> Right now we are doing a terrible job.  The cash register still rings
> louder than the pleas of those trying to keep earth livable.
>
> Gerrit.
>
> On 17-Apr-08, at 11:07 AM, gordon eliott wrote:
>
> yes terra preta is fascinating in itself.
> and yes for anyone interested in climate remediation, may i suggest:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI&feature=related
>
> best wishes
> gordon eliott
>
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