[Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

[Robert Klein]

And how is that determined?  That wood would be mixed into the blend is a given.  That it is the dominant source seems extremely unlikely if only because of the apparent dominance of finely powdered charcoal.  And wood charcoal would more naturally be used for fuel as happens today worldwide.

I would like to see any reports that claim this to review the analytic procedures(if any - scientists jump to conclusions also)

----- Original Message ----
From: Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>
To: Robert Klein <arclein at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:36:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

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Hi Robert,
 
I think you are wrong about Methane.  All archaeological evidence 
studied so far indicates that the charcoal used in the Terra PReta de Indio was 
made of WOOD.
 
SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Klein 
  To: Sean K. Barry 
  Cc: terra preta 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 12:32   PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln   Conjecture
  

    Hi   Sean

I do not know where you get your information from, but it would   behoove you to read the various postings that I have made on this subject here   and on my blog where I tackle every sub issue that I can.

I cannot think of anything more important 
  than understanding how it was possible for the Indios with a stone age tool 
  kit to produce biochar in the form of powdered carbon no less!  They 
  clearly produced millions of tons while we so far have produced a few hundred 
  pounds or so using drums and the like.  Obviously we are 
  idiots.

And they did not do   it by using much wood.  The little they used is still there to see and it   is not much.  Charcoal does not powder itself without mechanical   intervention.

You also continue to rant about methane production from   such a kiln.  Firstly, if you attended your grade eleven chemistry class,   you would have discovered that methane heads straight to the troposphere and   is consumed there somewhat like tossing salt in the ocean.  In any event,   most will be consumed by the chimney and if any actually escaped, one merely   lights a match.

By the way, methane atmospheric signatures are not   maintained over the oceans confirming the rapid removal of the methane to the   troposphere.  Get off this hobby horse.

You also ask about   sourcing corn stover.  You obviously know nothing about corn   production.  Each acre of corn field will produce most of ten tons of   corn stalks that must be pulled out and burned regardless releasing all the   material as co2 back into the atmosphere.  Reducing these ten tons of   corn stover to biochar is a small increase in the actual workload already   necessary.  In fact one would expect the oldest man who no longer has the   strength to pull stalks all day to do the packing meaning almost no diversion   of labor.

This simple process sequesters at least a ton of carbon per   acre each season  that it is used.  A mere fifteen seasons and you   have over fifteen tons per acre.

Much more interesting however is the   fact that this earthen kiln design will also tend to capture a lot of the   heavier volatiles in the earthen shell so that we actually have a blend of   combustion products mixed into the soil.  This is not as specific as   producing pure activated charcoal but I think that having a wide range of such   molecules maximizes the possibility of results.

And we need to properly   study such a product, not an artificial one blended with only one type of   carbon.

An industrial kiln design such as described in my blog will   typically destroy all the volatiles and leave only the carbon.

Have a   good day

bob


  -----   Original Message ----
From: Sean K. Barry   <sean.barry at juno.com>
To: terra pretta group   <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>; Robert Klein   <arclein at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 2:22:12   PM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture

       Hi Robert,
   
  Again with this post.  Whatever the Indios did to make charcoal out 
  of whatever they used DOES NOT MATTER TODAY!  When are you going to grasp 
  this?  Recommending to make charcoal in earthen kilns (in the open air) 
  made from corn stalks is a bad idea.  There is no way to do this without 
  massive releases of Methane-CH4, which has been discussed ad-nauseum with you 
  as a significant potential problem with this plan.  Also, just like there 
  isn't enough corn grown in the world to make enough ethanol to supply the 
  world's thirst for transportation fuel, there IS NOT ENOUGH CORN STALKS IN THE 
  WORLD to make the amount of charcoal we need to form enough Terra Preta and/or 
  make any kind of difference on agricultural food production or global climate 
  mitigation.
   
  Move on.  Your past one idea (Earthen Kiln Conjecture) is too 
  limited and problematic to be a solution or of any value to us, Robert.  
  That's my opinion and widely held in this group, I think.
   
  Best Regards,
   
  SKB
   
   
      ----- 
    Original Message ----- 
    From:     Robert 
    Klein 
    To:     terra pretta group 
    Sent:     Monday, April 14, 2008 1:14 PM
    Subject:     [Terrapreta] Earthen Kiln Conjecture
    

Ihave reposted an article by David Bennet with Lehmann on     Terra Preta publishedin 2005.  This outlines the most     criticalinformation as well as describing the original scope of the Indian     civilizationitself. It is at:http://globalwarming-arclein.blogspot.com/2008/04/earthen-terra-preta-kilns-and-pollen.htmlAgainthis     lays out the limiting factors and fully supports my earthen kilnconjecture,     particularly the following quotation.“There has been some pollen analysis.     It suggests manioc and maize were
being grown 2,000 to 3,000 years ago.     In the pollen bank, these crops didn’t
pop up sporadically but in large     numbers.”
Ihave also polished my description of the protocol and am     activelypromoting  field trials.Firstly,the maize or corn exists in an     environment that mitigated against its use forpurely food production.      There werealternatives far better suited. to the non terra preta     environment, startingimmediately with manioc which I think is a rainforest     friendly plant. Secondly,the only viable source of meat protein to these     peoples at this populationdensity was through fish.      Withoutconfirmation, a pond with tilapia makes great sense. It was a staple     for the Maya.The waste from the daily meal could be readily folded into any     growing seedhill.  Human waste could simply have beenburied in the     field itself avoiding any storage.  This is common practice to this     day. Themaking of the earthen kiln is no more difficult than uprooting the     dehydratedcorn stalks after harvest and properly stacking them to form an     earthen
 walledkiln with a wall thickness of two to three root     pads
 and an interior of tightlypacked corn stalks.  Obviously,     any otherplant material, including wood can be built into the stack as     available.  The earthen wall nicely restricts air flowduring the burn     phase and lends itself to optimization by changing the wallthickness.      It also minimizes the amountof human effort needed which is through the roof     if you are attempting to coveror bury a ten ton pile of stubble or branches.     Thisgives you a kiln with vertical earthen walls and a possibly domed top     that canbe easily covered with earth.  Again,field trials will optimize     this protocol very easily.  The kiln could be squared off or perhaps     evencircular though unlikely. The only tool to this point is a strong back     ortwo.  We have gathered several tons ofcorn stover over perhaps an     acre of land with only a little more effort thanthat annually required to     clear the field and burn the waste. Nowwe must fire the kiln. 
 The easy     way isto take a clay lined old basket
 and fill it up with coals     from a woodfire.  Carry this ember charge to thecenter of the kiln top     and tip the charge onto the exposed center and place thebasket as a cap to     the newly forming chimney. 
More clay may be necessary to widen the     chimney cap.  Throw more earth on top of this to preventbreakout of the     fire.  Keep throwingearth on any breakout points that start. 
The     chimney will serve to burn all the volatiles produced as the hotzone expands     to fill the collapsing kiln until they are exhausted.  Thereupon the     hot zone will cool off leavinga blend of biochar, ash and earth and some     root ends for the next kiln.  And yes, we should have a lot of fired     clay. Thebiochar itself will be a range of nonvolatile combustion products     that willrange from even dried vegetation to activated charcoal following a     nice bellcurve.  The material can be then gatheredin baskets and     redistributed into the field onto the seed hills again reducingwastage and     effort. Irealized originally that the only ancient plant that could     accommodate a highenough volume of terra preta production was good old     maize.  It just seemed an unlikely option fortropical rainforests. That     is when I started looking for references to thepollen record.  The     article by DavidBennett and Lehmann is one of those
 reverences that then     emerged. Iwould like to get a full
 spectrum of the pollen profile     since it seems verylikely that while the fence rows held the food trees, it     seems more likely thatthey also used a variation of the three sisters using     some form of convenientlegume.  Squashes also, of course, butnot nearly     as important. Thekey point of all this is that a family can convert a field     into terra preta inone short season, allowing them to repeat the process     thereafter as necessaryuntil the field is completely transformed to     depth.  Today, we can do the same thing using shovelsand a garbage can     lid.




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