[Terrapreta] Fwd: evil ethanol

[lou gold]

>
> 3.  Should Brazil sacrifice their potential economic gains from converting
> forestland to farmland?
>

Nope, it doesn't really work like that. The mega-farmers don't convert
forest to farm. They expand into pasture. Then the ranchers and loggers
(mostly illegal) take down more forest. And the speculators use fire to
facilitate land grabs. It triggered buy the increase in land values.

The better way -- which is being explored -- would be to link Brazil's
highly productive and efficient agriculture (for food and fuel) to some kind
of carbon credit supported soil improvement and carbon sequestration
strategy. There is a good article here:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042208A.shtml

>
>
> 4.  I don't think that sugarcane is 10 times as efficient as corn in
> producing ethanol, though it is more efficient.  I've read that the USA
> could import it from Brazil for less than it costs to produce from corn.
>  Why don't they?
>

I'm not completely confident in the 10x figure but there is general
agreement that cane is much, much more efficient than corn for ethanol.

Why isn't it imported? Because the US slaps a 54 cent per gallon tariff on
Brazilian ethanol in order to protect US farmers. This drives Brazil nuts.
Justifiably I think.

The basic point is that the so-called "efficient" agriculture of the US has
been supported by huge public subsidies and protective tariffs that drove
the global price down to where less subsidized farmers worldwide could no
longer compete. Perhaps that might change in the new era of shortages and
higher prices. Let's see.




>
>
> Gerald
>
> On 23-Apr-08, at 9:28 AM, lou gold wrote:
>
> Hey Gerald,
>
> I agree but it's not about "evil ethanol" but about "evil corn ethanol".
> Why "evil"? Because sugarcane is 10 times more efficient, because the US
> corn ethanol program is a major taxpayer funded boondoggle that is
> distorting global markets and food supplies, and because the resulting jump
> in soybean prices (as soy planting shifted to corn in the US) resulted in a
> return to massive deforestation in the Brazilian Amazon. Perhaps, you might
> agree that these are "evil" outcomes?
>
> hugs,
>
> lou
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Gerald Van Koeverden <vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Sorry.  I don't know.
> > Whatever the case, those dollar values are all old values from several
> > years ago.  This is a program that works in Excel.  Just replace those
> > values, with the new ones for your area.  You can also adjust efficiency of
> > the furnace, to suit your condition.
> >
> >
> > On 22-Apr-08, at 10:05 PM, MFH wrote:
> >
> > Gerald,
> >
> > Apparently a "cord" of wood can be different volumes.
> >
> > For example, a 'stove' cord is 4ft x 8ft x 12" and a 'face' cord is 4ft
> > x 9ft x 16", whereas a full cord is 4ft x 8ft x 4ft.
> >
> > Do you know which is used in the Excel spreadsheet?  If it's a full cord
> > then $130 sounds too cheap.
> >
> > Max H
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org [
> > mailto:terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org<terrapreta-bounces at bioenergylists.org>
> > ] *On Behalf Of *Gerald Van Koeverden
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 April 2008 5:08 AM
> > *To:* terra pretta group
> > *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] evil ethanol
> >
> > Sorry.
> >
> > Lost the actual link. Here's the whole program
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Terrapreta mailing list
> > Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> > http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://lougold.blogspot.com
> http://flickr.com/visionshare/sets
> http://youtube.com/my_videos
>
>
>


-- 
http://lougold.blogspot.com
http://flickr.com/visionshare/sets
http://youtube.com/my_videos
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /attachments/20080423/f7b4595d/attachment-0001.html