[Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture

[Robert Klein]

Forest fires do a wonderful job of clearing land.  They also fail to produce much char simply because it gets hot enough to be self igniting if air is available.  One is left with a few stray chunks of isolated charcoal and lots of ash.  This is slash and burn.  To get char, the air must be controlled and shut of.

----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Joyner <jimstoy at dtccom.net>
To: terrapreta <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:03:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture

  Sean,

I didn't mean to imply that we should do what I suspect Amazonians oflong ago did. I think what you are saying is right. To simply burn uptrees in the clearing process would (is) a gargantuan waste, never mindwhat it might be doing to the environment. But there are real costseither way.

I do believe, however, there may be a value in understanding what theydid in the beginning and how they might have accomplished it.Ultimately, when we find the real efficacy of char in soil, we willalso find out if there is a difference between the char of trees andthose of grasses and other crop wastes. Just looking for clues.

Jim

Sean K. Barry wrote:        Hi Jim,
   
  I've never seen the canopy of the rainforest in the Amazon.  I
hope to someday soon.  We should ask Lou about it.  He lives there.  I
have seen the canopy in temperate forests.  You cannot get enough
sunlight to grow food crops under a forest canopy, I didn't think.  I
might be wrong about this, but I think its true?  Nowadays, Brazilians
do not leave trees standing and grow crops under them.  They
slash-and-burn.  We seek to change that to slash-and-char.  No maybe
Savanna might be a better terraform to begin "Terra Preta Nova"
development in than in a rainforest.  That is certainly possible, don't
you think?
   
  Regards,
   
  SKB
      -----
Original Message ----- 
    From:    Jim Joyner 
    To:    terrapreta 
    Sent:Friday, April 18, 2008 10:10 PM
    Subject:Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture
    
    
Hey Sean,
    
Is it not possible that, on the forested "islands" or other forests,that Amazonians simply razed the forests by burning them completelydown (don't have to deal with all that weight, moving, digging andburying), then added to the ashes char from crop waste feed stocks andmaybe other OM from somewhere else (brought in lots of clay pots?), andthen grew crops? For the raised areas that apparently were created bymaking mounds, there would have been no need to get the trees out ofthe way. They might have just brought in the char and other amendments.
    
Much easier way to do it given a lack of available technology(chainsaws, bulldozers and the like). Just a thought.
    
Jim
    
Sean K. Barry wrote:                            Hi Lou, Michael, et al,
       
      It would be interesting to fell a hardwood in the rainforest
now, in a muddy area, with girdling and fire alone?  Just to clear an
area for sunlight?  With no stone or metal tools?  Then light it a fire
on the ground (how?, in parts?) and bury it?  But to what end would we
do this?  To replicate what ancient Amazonians did?  If that is what
they did?  For what reason would we do this?  Do you see my point?
       
      I do not think we want to consider harvesting old growth
forests anyway now, to make charcoal to put into Terra Preta Nova
soils.  No one hear thinks that is what needs be done and it's because
the ancients did it that way.  I think the most logical source of
biomass feedstock for pyrolysis/gasification into charcoal and usable
energy is biomass that is likely to decay anyway.  Waste biomass (RFS,
MSW, etc) and annual growth that falls and decays annually anyway from
amongst both crops and other natural plants.  Biomass forms that grow
higher tons of "fixed Carbon" per hectare (fC ha-1) of usable for
pyrolysis feedstock are potential energy crops.  Charcoal application,
fertilizer amendments, and sufficient watering into energy crop soils
might have feedbacks that enhance both fC ha-1 yields and soil carbon
sequestration rates.
       
      Forward looking models for development of Terra Preta Nova,
which includes conversion of biomass to charcoal and harvesting usable
bio-energy, need to consider all charcoal uses (agricultural
benefits/food production enhancement, carbon sequestration, energy
replacement, etc) and high charcoal production rates needed very soon
for some of those uses.  Specifically, charcoal made for
charcoal-in-soil carbon sequestration will requires perhaps several
billion tons per year (Gt yr-1) of charcoal production within 10-25
years, I suppose?
       
      Agriculture interest seem as if they cannot figure out a way
how to use it?, or where, or a reason to do making and using anything
near several Gt yr-1 of charcoal right now.  No body has the "Terra
Preta de Indio" recipe and the farmers are all saying that "... unless
it is a proven, economically viable, agriculturally more productive,
profitable benefit product for me to use, than I'll never use it or do
it!"  SO, there is not a market for any Gt yr-1 of charcoal there,
right?  Now what do we do?
       
      I think the answer to, "Now what do we do?", is to start
making charcoal for Terra Preta Nova development now, anyway.  Do it
like we're going to turn the whole world into a Terra Preta soiled
landform, a planet sized TP garden!  We put charcoal into soil to work
now on preventing further GW and GCC problems later and for the
agricultural benefits that we will learn about along the way.  We will
need to do something like this eventually, anyway, right?  We might as
well get started.  It's going to take years, perhaps more than a
century, to even begin to push back a little against where the climate
is headed now.
       
      There is promise, too, that left untended, GCC could move
into an era of positive feedbacks: Methyl hydrate releases (thawed CH4)
and CO2 releases from the oceans (plant and animal die offs), Methane
gas-CH4 releases from permafrost wetlands in the northern former Soviet
Union, northern Canada and Alaska, increased N2O concentrations from
continued industrial fertilizer use, adiabatic heating due to less
snow/ice cover on land and oceans, etc.  These positive feedbacks will
accelerate the warming and need to be avoided.
       
      I think we can make positive feedbacks work now to our
advantage, too, in making "Terra Preta Nova", if we increase the scale
of our operations.  Already using MSW and agricultural residues, that
decay anyway, as feedstock for charcoal is a positive feedback in our
desired direction (removing CO2 from the atmosphere).  It removes some
CO2 now and prevents further CO2 cycling into and out of the atmosphere
for many years into the future.  Improved soils under charcoal and
bio-energy producing crops is another potential large feedback. 
Overall increased plant growth and consequent CO2 uptake by plants
planted in Terra Preta Nova soils, could also prove to be a large
positive feedback towards and help in lowering the CO2 concentration in
the atmosphere at a faster rate.
       
      Let's make lots of charcoal and put it into lots of soil now!
       
      Regards,
       
      SKB
       
       
              -----
Original Message ----- 
        From:        lou gold 
        To:        Michael
Bailes 
        Cc:        terra
pretta group 
        Sent:Friday, April 18, 2008 2:11 PM
        Subject:Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture
        
        
I'm not sure of the relevance either but I want to assure you thatnothing amazing is going on. The life and structure of a large tree isconcentrated in the outer layers. Hollow trees are quite natural.
        
        On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:35 PM,Michael Bailes <michaelangelica at gmail.com>wrote:
        AustralianAboriginals encouraged the burning of large gums so that a hollow wasmade though the centre of the gum.
Amazingly gums survive this traeatment and live on.
The hollows became great nesting places for native animals andtherefore convenient larders for fresh food for the aborigines.
          
I am not sure how this is relevant
But it would be interesting to set alight to a rainforest hardwood treeto see if it formed ash or charcoal.
Michael B
                
            
        
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