[Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Frank,

What about ammonium bicarbonate (ABC) made from strictly H2 of biomass origin or "electrolysis" of water, with all processes using energy derived strictly from renewable resources including biomass energy, wind, solar thermal, and solar electric (i.e. no fossil carbon energy resources used in the production of or the materials of the proposed organic soil amendment)?  Could that be accepted as an organic amendment?

This is what Eprida claims to do, I think.  They use CO2 and H2 derived from the pyrolysis reaction, combined with Nitrogen-N2 from the air to synthesize ammonium bicarbonate-NH4HCO3 on charcoal dust whirling in a cyclone.  As the ABC deposits on the char particles, it flies out onto the cyclone and slides down into a collection.  I had heard also, that there was some "gassing off" of an "ammonia smell" (NH3) from bags of the ECOSS product.  This problem may be resolved now.  I don't know how much "steam reforming" they do of the pyrolysis "producer gas" or whether they use the Haber-Bausch process themselves to synthesize the ammonia they are using, or how much process energy they have available, or the amount external energy that they might use to make the ECOSS product.

You can ask Eprida's President, Danny Day yourself about any of this.  He seems willing to communicate about what he is doing, mostly.  He's on the list and might read this posting.  If you had more specific questions you could write to him.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Frank Teuton<mailto:fteuton at videotron.ca> 
  To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
  Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


  The organic standards generally accepted globally forbid the use of synthetic nitrogen fertilizer. To the extent that a nitrogenized char soil amendment might be accepted at all, it would need to be charged with nitrogen of natural origin.

  Some possible ways of achieving this include:

  Char in compost where the composting process is managed to release some ammoniacal N and the char is placed to adsorb it;

  Char as part of a biofiltration process where N is scrubbed out of compost gasses into the char

  Char in animal manure management where urine and feces are mixed with char and the char adsorbs some of the N

  Most likely in all of these circumstances the char would also become charged with substantial microbial populations. 

  I think such complexed chars would be very acceptable to organic certification bodies, as long as the char is from noncontaminated origin materials, but not if synthetic N is used.

  My tuppence, 

  Frank Teuton
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
    To: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
    Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
    Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:11 AM
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


    Hi Gerrit,

    I think "Nitrogen-oil free grades" refers to high nitrogen fertilizer that is not made with petroleum or natural gas.

    Regards,

    SKB
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
      To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
      Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:51 AM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


      Sean,


      I did a quick scan of those organic farming regulations: the only relevant applications I could find were on page 16 under the heading "Synthetics allowed."


      1.  The only entry for charcoal is "Activated charcoal (CAS #s 7440–44–0; 64365–11–3)—only from vegetative sources; for use only as a  
      filtering aid."   


      2.  Nitrogen—oil-free grades.  


      Doesn't look like even straight charcoal would be acceptable to them as a soil amendment.  "Terra Preta" is not yet a part of their lexicon.


      I don't know what an "oil-free" grade of nitrogen means.


      gerrit






      On 14-Jan-08, at 1:03 AM, Sean K. Barry wrote:


        <summary-of-us-organic-regulation.pdf>




----------------------------------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    Terrapreta mailing list
    Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
    http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
    http://info.bioenergylists.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /attachments/20080114/d5b10e39/attachment.html