[Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi John,

Yes, that sounds about like what I heard from OMRI when I talked to them about Organic Material certification in Minnesota.  They want to know about materials and processes.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John G. Flottvik<mailto:jovick at shaw.ca> 
  To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; Frank Teuton<mailto:fteuton at videotron.ca> ; Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
  Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; Thomas Allen<mailto:thallen at nwlink.com> 
  Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 11:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


  Sean.

  I have talked to the Organic Growers Association and they wont touch any product unless certified organic. To do what I have started with my"new product" will cost 
  $690.00 for the OMRI and whatever the lab people will charge. OMRI don't do the testing. They give us a rule to follow, we & Lab must follow their direction and make sure all the t's are crossed an i,s are dotted. This will take me up to 4 months IF I get samples into the lab now. I only hope they accept cow manure that is dried at 300C to kill any pathogens. As mentioned earlier, raw, and pasteurized manures are labeled as restricted.

  John.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
    To: Frank Teuton<mailto:fteuton at videotron.ca> ; Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
    Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; Thomas Allen<mailto:thallen at nwlink.com> 
    Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:10 AM
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


    Hi Gerrit,

    I think from talking to some organic growers about this, they set the distinction along the lines of ... "What are the solid nitrogen bearing compounds in "natural" sources of nitrogen versus the nitrogen in ammonium salts, that are the general form of solid industrially made fertilizers?"  The other sticking point for them is with the source of the energy used in the production.  If the energy used to synthesize the nitrogen fertilizers is fossil carbon or nuclear in origin, then they want nothing to do with any products from those processes.  They want the nitrogen bearing fertilizer resources they use to come from sunshine, land, sky, and animals asses, without any "wiff" of unnatural petroleum in it or it's production.

    I agree on avoiding the use of fossil carbon in the production, application, or materials of fertilizers.  I agree with this, whether they are used for just organic growing or not.  But, maybe organic growers could be more educated about what some people can "synthesize" from all natural sources and using all natural forces.  These kinds of products are surely within the spirit of the organic movement, let alone the letter of their rules, for now.  Soon that could follow, too?

    Regards,

    SKB
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca> 
      To: Frank Teuton<mailto:fteuton at videotron.ca> 
      Cc: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
      Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:28 AM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


      I never could understand (nor accept) the "organic" distinction between "natural" and "synthetic" nitrogen.   The nitrogen in the air is no less natural than that which is found in manure... 


      It would be truly ironic if organic farmers could not directly benefit from Eprida's innovation.


      Gerrit


      On 14-Jan-08, at 11:11 AM, Frank Teuton wrote:


        The organic standards generally accepted globally forbid the use of synthetic nitrogen fertilizer. To the extent that a nitrogenized char soil amendment might be accepted at all, it would need to be charged with nitrogen of natural origin.

        Some possible ways of achieving this include:

        Char in compost where the composting process is managed to release some ammoniacal N and the char is placed to adsorb it;

        Char as part of a biofiltration process where N is scrubbed out of compost gasses into the char

        Char in animal manure management where urine and feces are mixed with char and the char adsorbs some of the N

        Most likely in all of these circumstances the char would also become charged with substantial microbial populations.

        I think such complexed chars would be very acceptable to organic certification bodies, as long as the char is from noncontaminated origin materials, but not if synthetic N is used.

        My tuppence,

        Frank Teuton
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
          To: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>
          Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
          Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:11 AM
          Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


          Hi Gerrit,

          I think "Nitrogen-oil free grades" refers to high nitrogen fertilizer that is not made with petroleum or natural gas.

          Regards,

          SKB
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Gerald Van Koeverden<mailto:vnkvrdn at yahoo.ca>
            To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
            Cc: Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
            Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:51 AM
            Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?


            Sean,


            I did a quick scan of those organic farming regulations: the only relevant applications I could find were on page 16 under the heading "Synthetics allowed."


            1.  The only entry for charcoal is "Activated charcoal (CAS #s 7440–44–0; 64365–11–3)—only from vegetative sources; for use only as a  
            filtering aid."   


            2.  Nitrogen—oil-free grades.  


            Doesn't look like even straight charcoal would be acceptable to them as a soil amendment.  "Terra Preta" is not yet a part of their lexicon.


            I don't know what an "oil-free" grade of nitrogen means.


            gerrit






            On 14-Jan-08, at 1:03 AM, Sean K. Barry wrote:


              <summary-of-us-organic-regulation.pdf>





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