[Terrapreta] eprida char - organic?

[Jim Joyner]

Allan, Michael,

Allan Balliett wrote:
> I think any farmer is  going to appreciate increased nutrient 
> retention, improved water control and a strengthened, highly 
> diversified, soil foodweb.
I don't know how many organic growers would benefit from the use of TP 
and I don't think there is any way to assess that question at the 
moment. I do know, however, there are good soils that are not likely to 
be improved much. And, while TP might bestow a benefit, $5,000 to 
$10,000 acre may not be a very attractive unless the net benefit is 
quite high.

We don't know the increased nutrient holding capacities in any but a 
hand full of soils, and most of those are extremely poor. In the Amazon 
one will find top soils 1 inch deep. Near Memphis we have top soil that 
can be 8 feet deep.

It doesn't even appear that charcoal holds more nutrient. Charcoal 
doesn't seem to influence CEC, at least not directly. And, if the 
nutrient doesn't show up in the soil's base saturation, it ain't 
available to plants anyway. Charcoal may hold more of the humus or clay 
more stably that in turn holds the nutrient, but we still don't know how 
much or under exactly what circumstances..

The whole question is about how much increased marginal utility we will 
get from adding TP. We don't know that yet, we are still guessing. We 
don't even know how much to add to which soils. And once we know, there 
are still lots of variables, like soil type and climate. For example, no 
one in Ohio or Indiana who has a muck soil is going to be the least bit 
interested in increased water or nutrient holding ability.

I have talked recently to several large scale organic farmers about TP 
-- had them go to the net and read about it -- and while they seem 
interested in the idea, they need to be convinced by a lot more than 
something that is "ascribed". If someone is going to spend $100,000 on a 
10 acre field, they are going to want to get back that money with a good 
return. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. The better their soil, the 
less likely it is a good move.

Organic farmers are no longer the back-to-the-landers, hippies and 
dreamers of the 80s. They are hard nosed business people with a lot 
invested. It will take more than rhetoric about do-gooder schemes and a 
diversified food web to convince them. The knowledge may be forthcoming 
but we don't have it yet.

My original point was that, almost by definition, soils of conventional 
farmers are depleted and lack biological structure. These, I think, are 
lower hanging fruit.

I too am an organic farmer. Mine is among the sorriest soil on the face 
of the planet. I have lots of heat and humidity and I'm still not ready 
to spend that $100,000 on 10 acres. Are you?

Jim
> We are in clay loam, and while we are able to build soils through 
> organic practices, we haven't created an soils  that approach the 
> humic content ascribed to terra preta.
>
> But I vote for "pure char or pure charcoal' for incorporating in our 
> soil and not for amended products.
>
> -Allan Balliett
> organic farmer
> Shepherdstown, WV
>