[Terrapreta] Farm/compost biochar
Dick Gallien
dickgallien at gmail.com
Tue Jun 3 09:35:51 CDT 2008
Hi Kevin--thanks for pondering my/our problem.
On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 12:20 AM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
wrote:
> Dear Dick
>
> You can't do something for nothing. I can appreciate it that you want to
> do "the right thing", but this will cost you money up front. Then, after
> you have teh charcoal produced, what do you do with it then?
>
I don't enjoy going further in debt, but to me, the ideal in life is to find
some "worthwhile" endeavor that gives one such inner satisfaction that one
would do it for no pay and this fits in with what I'm trying to demonstrate
with the farm. For example, 10 years ago I started picking up food waste 7
days a week from 2 supermarkets, for no pay--just the inner satisfaction of
feeding it to a few goats and sheep who enriched the land, rather than
having it sent 75 miles to the eternal hell of a Wisconsin. land fill.
Unbeknown to me, a hog farmer had received a $32,500 state grant to pick up
food waste at Winona, Rochester and Albert Lea--a 250 mile round trip, with
employees driving/pressure washing barrels, etc., so when hog prices hit
bottom, he quit. Now I get paid from his Winona customers, plus the inner
satisfaction and I'm the only employee, with a round trip of 10 miles and I
pick up the university and hospital wvo, so have over 2,000 gallons and
could use any of your suggestions on what would be worth running it on in
cold weather. The story goes on.
> Do you have a huge pile of char that is then a disposal problem?
The tree waste that is usually torched, with all it's potential energy and
char, is the recycling problem and in my case, a huge fire problem. Once
you give me a few clues on this little vertical tank retort, we can stock
pile that char with the dozer in a fraction of the space the brush takes.
We can put a Nova Scotia flag on top of the pile along with a picnic table
and you are invited down to share in the inner satisfaction.
>
>
> Can you compact it and sell as charcoal briquettes?
That is similar to the thousands of yards of wet biomass here, that others
suggest I compost, screen, bag and sell. Business never interested me and
I've had nothing but trouble from the county environmental protection
people. I'll send the paper towel example.
>
>
> Can you sell it to farmers for land application.
I doubt many have heard of it, anything we might produce wouldn't be a drop
in the bucket, plus most of their soils are dead. A Saint Marys U. prof has
brought classes to the farm every spring and fall, for over 25 years. Many
times we've taken a few spade fulls on this farm, which are full of earth
worms and then to my neighbors adjoining field, which had been in continuous
corn for over 50 years and we could never find one worm or worm casting.
>
> So basically, it will cost you out of pocket money for hardware and
> modifications to get a facility built , and it will cost you money to
> operate it. It will cost you money to dispose of teh resulting char, unless
> you can sell it. If you can sell it for enough, you can break even, and
> perhaps even make money.
I agree, it will cost, etc., but making it happen is all that matters to me.
>
>
> Unless you think the project out, it could cost you a lot of money that
> perhaps you can't afford. I do not want to help you further with the project
> if it will get you in financial trouble.
I've been in financial trouble all of my life and have never lost a minutes
sleep over it, to which the third wife responds, "Lucky simple minded man".
>
> On the other hand, perhaps you are financially very well off, and are quite
> prepared and able to spend "a lot" of money on the project for your
> satisfaction, out of principle, or for the fun of doing it.
No, I don't have that problem or I'd be dangerous. I'm just hoping some will
throw out suggestion and others would comment on them. While admiring the
tank with a friend, who appreciates the power of wood gas, he thought I
might even be able to put a stump in orbit.
The 30' X 10'dia. 1"thick tank, originally a railroad tank car, with a
11'dia. fuel tank over the top, can be easily top load with the log truck..
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/563661895nUjqlO
The original intent for the tank and boiler, was to gasify large wood,
bypassing the costly grinding/chipping, which is the big reason why most
tree waste is torched. Charring would seem to be cheaper, if we can do it
simple, without compromising the tank. Thanks for putting up with me. Dick
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> Dick Gallien wrote:
>
>> Still looking for suggestions. Kevin suggested I use this tank to char
>> the huge piles of brush, which I have refused to torch, as many compost?
>> sites do here. It is a 30' X 10' dia. 1" thick, over 36,000 lbs. rail road
>> tank car, which I can top load with the old log truck. A 11' dia. fuel tank
>> is hanging from the top of the rr tank, so the 6" can be filled with
>> insulation (any suggestions as to the cheapest, most effective high temp
>> insulation?). The lid would be air tight, I can make a 4' X 4' door at the
>> base, so as to unload with an extended bucket on the Bobcat and planned to
>> funnel from about 6' above the base, down to 4' dia.at <http://dia.at>
>> the base. How would you run this as a retort? I could have a removable
>> stove as the 4' X 4' door, but I don't understand how the stove is exhausted
>> and how the wood gas is returned to combust in the stove. At 76, I'm eager
>> to get started, before the party is over. Kevin asked, Why do you REALLY
>> want to do this and I can only say it would be for the inner satisfaction of
>> seeing it work, making good use of this usually wasted tree waste, giving
>> others ideas and improving the soil on this little farm. Please forward this
>> to anyone else that might be interested. Hope to hear from you. Dick
>> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 10:54 AM, Dick Gallien <dickgallien at gmail.com<mailto:
>> dickgallien at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Am looking for suggestion. I've had a community service farm
>> compost site, open every day, from dawn until dark, for 16 years,
>> operating on an honor system. Three times I've hired a 650 hp tub
>> grinder, the last time was 7 years ago, costing over $10,000 and
>> there is no market for the grindings. So I have 7 years of
>> accumulated brush, trees and stumps. Over 90% of tree waste in
>> Mn. is torched and I joke that torching is against my religion.
>> Biochar and terra preta allows me to bend, but not break my
>> religion. I'm looking for the simplest way to char large
>> quantities of brush and larger wood, to use on this farm, as a
>> demonstration, to keep from being buried in it and because I have
>> a hangup about rich, living soil.
>>
>> Must immediately reduce the volume of brush, so
>> a few days ago I dozed old brush against a 15' high bank of wet,
>> packed biomass. When it was blazing I dozed (Kamotso, with 11'
>> blade--little bigger than a D-6) the pile from above, completely
>> burying it, except for a few wisps of smoke still coming from the
>> pile, 5 days later.
>>
>> Obviously not the answer. Can stack brush 8' high with the jawed
>> backhoe or much higher with an old log truck. Leave a pole in the
>> center as a chimney, to be pulled later.
>> Cover the pile a few ft. deep with wet biomass and light it down
>> in the pole hole. Would appreciate any suggestions
>> from your readings or experience.
>>
>> Once the huge piles of brush are cleaned up am wondering about
>> something like the Adam retort, except much larger. My Trojan
>> loader bucket is 8' wide, so could make a rectangular trench into
>> a bank 10' to 12' wide, for loading and unloading into the 425 bu.
>> spreader. I can get 2'X2'X6', tongue and groove concrete bunker
>> blocks delivered for $35 at . Don't know how they would hold up to
>> the heat. I use them double stacked to hold hogs in, which I
>> raise totally on food waste. Same question for pre-cast concrete,
>> self supporting bunker silo walls. I can put either one into a
>> bank, 8 or 10' high, with dirt flush to the top, so the sides
>> would be airtight. Have the end of a 42' wide building, made into
>> a bank, the bank retained by 16' high precaste bunker silo
>> walls,--- but what to cover a larger Adams retort with--, some
>> crude, top loading, movable wood burner as part of an end wall???
>> Thanks for listening, Dick
>>
>> -- Dick Gallien
>> 22501 East Burns Valley Road
>> Winona MN 55987
>> dickgallien at gmail.com <mailto:dickgallien at gmail.com> [507]454-3126
>> www.thewinonafarm.com <http://www.thewinonafarm.com/>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dick Gallien
>> 22501 East Burns Valley Road
>> Winona MN 55987
>> dickgallien at gmail.com <mailto:dickgallien at gmail.com> [507]454-3126
>> www.thewinonafarm.com <http://www.thewinonafarm.com>
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>
>
>
--
Dick Gallien
22501 East Burns Valley Road
Winona MN 55987
dickgallien at gmail.com [507]454-3126
www.thewinonafarm.com
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