[Terrapreta] History on the climate aspects of the terrapreta list

[Ron Larson]

Kevin etal  - see responses below.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Chisholm" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
To: "Ron Larson" <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
Cc: "Greg and April" <gregandapril at earthlink.net>; "Sean K. Barry" <sean.barry at juno.com>; "lou gold" <lou.gold at gmail.com>; "Terra Preta" <terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] History on the climate aspects of the terrapreta list


> Dear Ron
> 
> I would suggest that every person on the TP List would agree that 
> burying biochar or using it as an agricultural supplement will tend to 
> reduce the CO2 content of the Atmosphere. The problem is that nobody 
> seems to know if Terra Preta will work and be economic outside of 
> Brazil, as an agricultural supplement.
> 
> Would you know of anywhere in the World North or south of the 20 Degree 
> of Latitude where char has recently been added to agricultural soils in 
> a commercially successful manner?  [RWL:  No.  But if you remove the words "commercially successful", I believe the answer is yes.  I am particularly thinking of work in Australia with both large plots of corn and sugar cane.  I am not aware of any experiments reported on this list or elsewhere that are decidedly negative.]
> 
> Would not the cause of Terra Preta Advancement be better served if we 
> directed our efforts at understanding how it works and how to make it 
> for different soil conditions and for different climates, rather than 
> focusing on the GHG benefits from TP that can only be realized if we 
> know how to make TP work economically??   [RWL:  I am not recommending we focus on the GHG benefits.  I am saying they need to be part of our discussion because they will so dramatically swing the economics.  Our most influential advocates are driven by climate concerns (Jim Hansen and Tim Flannery).  They will ignore our discussions,  to our detriment, if we are divided on their driving forces.]
> 
> Imagine if we had a "Terra Preta Farmer's Manual" that told the Farmer 
> how to improve his soil and his yields through biochar additions, and 
> provided a credible estimate of costs and benefits. If the process was 
> economic, then a very large market would develop for biochar. Success in 
> Agriculture is the engine that will drive the demand for biochar for 
> soil application. No sensible Farmer is going to spread biochar on his 
> land unless it will be advantageous. What is needed is extensive Field 
> Testing so that a Farmer will have a rational basis for spending money 
> on buying and applying biochar to his lands.  [RWL:  Agreed.]
> 
> The payment or credit per tonne of Carbon sequestered will be determined 
> by Governments and Agencies and Markets far removed from biochar and 
> Terra Preta. Once these "Outside Forces" set the payment per tonne of 
> Carbon sequestered, there could be a mad rush to make charcoal and apply 
> it to the land, IF the Farmer can make money by doing it. Perhaps a 
> charcoal payment of $30 per tonne is enough to justify using biochar as 
> an agricultural supplement... perhaps $200 per tonne of char is 
> required. The sad thing is that at the present, we don't know.  [RWL:  Agreed.]
> 
> I have some marginal land here in Nova Scotia. I want to grow bush 
> beans. Can you give me the name and address of anyone in the World who 
> can tell me how much biochar I should add to my soil, and what else I 
> should do, to get maximum economic results?   [RWL:  No I can't.  But persons like yourself can do some pretty cheap experiments.  Your next list are all amenable to experimentation.  My goal is to get ag and soil scientists busy on all of your list (and more - I want to know "why").]
> I would like to know:
> * Can I use any wood to make the char?
> * What temperature should the char be made at?
> * What size should it be for best application?
> * How much should I add per acre?
> * What other additives and treatments should I apply?
> * What would be the expected increase in bean yield using the 
> recommended biochar based treatment?
> * What would be the "second best treatment"?
> * Would the increased cost of the char additions be justified by the 
> increment in yield?  [RWL: and I would add that we need to more on he importance of GHG sequestration payments.]
> 
> If Farmers had the answers to these questions, then it would be very 
> easy to decide in a rational manner whether or not they should add char 
> to their soil. Only if the answer was positive would they add biochar to 
> their soil. Only then would the World get a GHG benefit from their 
> biochar additions to the soil.  [RWL:  Agreed.]
> 
> "To make a Rabbit Pie, first catch a Rabbit." Would you not agree that 
> to get a GHG benefit from New Terra Preta, we must first figure out how 
> to make and use New Terra Preta?  [RWL:  Agreed.  But there is no reason for that to be the only topic.  An important topic for all on this list is the economics.  I claim the economics are going to be strongly dependent on GHG payments.]
> 
> Would you also agree that whether we believe in, or disbelieve in GW, 
> nothing will happen with New Terra Preta unless the Grower can make 
> money by using biochar as an agricultural additive?  [RWL:  See last answer.]
> 
> Shouldn't our first priority be to figure out how to make New Terra 
> Preta work? Only after we can demonstrate that New Terra Preta is 
> economic can we expect to get Green House Gas benefits from it. 
> Promoting the GHG benefits of New Terra Preta before we have a process 
> that works, is like selling chickens before we even have a hen to lay 
> the eggs.  [RWL:  See last answer.    If you or anyone else will supply me the scientific references that you/they are relying on for their disbelief in man-made GW, I would be most appreciative.     Ron ]
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> 
> Ron Larson wrote:
>> Greg (with ccs):

    <snip last night's message>
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