[Terrapreta] Char sizes

Tue May 6 10:43:11 CDT 2008

Kevin-------Thanks for the comments. Can you act on any of them?

While sleeping on those thoughts, I was reminded of the US Forest  
Service researcher, Alex Shigo, who discovered the defense mechanism  
that trees have to protect themselves from disease. He was in a  
search for how to best protect the board footage (cubic board foot)  
within a forest for the marketplace.

When we are threaten we can either fight or run. He noted that we are  
bags of muscles supported by a skeleton system and without our  
skeleton we could not move into action for our own defense. Where as,  
a tree is unable to act except in a static position, i.e. in place.  
There are some exception where trees can grow towards a nutrient  
source and thus, over time, move their mass towards a better growing  
situation.

Shigo discovered that a tree had 5 defensive barriers that slow and  
directs the movement of disease within a tree. He named this  
protective system the Compartmentalization of Decay in Trees (CODIT)  
and it is widely used in the arboricultural industries. If we are to  
grow trees to be used in the production of charcoal then his research  
findings will be helpful. He did think out of the box.

One of the ideas that he promoted after his 35 years with the Forest  
Service was to "Touch Trees". He wanted persons interested in  
arboriculture to visually and physical work with trees. This is more  
than to touch and feel. It is to observe and report without  
judgement... in order to learn.

Nay sayers will shoot holes in any ideas without a solid basis for  
why the ideas don't work. Like in grade school, "show your work".  
This is the only way that we will learn how best to use charcoal. My  
friend... *iss on it. What does you charcoal tell you?

The earth will teach us something yet. Be well-------Larry

--------------------------------
On May 6, 2008, at 2:44 AM, Kevin Chisholm wrote:

> Dear Larry
> \\
> Larry Williams wrote:
>> Max-------Richard Haard tried the cement mixer <http:// 
>> www.flickr.com/photos/rchaard/396830225/in/set-72157594444994347/>  
>> on some charcoal that we made and found it to hard to break up.  
>> For that batch of charcoal the "landscaper two-step" (stomp-stomp)  
>> was used on a concrete floor to greater effect. Since then we have  
>> observed that charcoal that has been "wetted" allows the charcoal,  
>> on most pieces, to break apart fairly easy with one's fingers. No,  
>> we will not used our fingers to do the next cord-plus batch of  
>> charcoal. I need to try wetting more charcoal in different ways to  
>> get a sense of what I like best. The wetting process, I believe,  
>> is an important part of the results that I had.
>
> OK! What about simply dumping the charcoal on a paved driveway,  
> spray lightly with a hose, and drive back and forth over teh  
> charcoal with a tractor?
>
>>
>> Over a period of eight months I plucked pieces of charcoal from  
>> the Weber grill and threw the pieces in a pile on the ground (well  
>> rotted wood chips) on a weekly basis. This occurred over three  
>> maritime seasons, two of which were wet. With a minimum of human  
>> urine (three or four times) used as fertilizer, the charcoal and  
>> charred wood laid on the ground. I was impressed with the rich  
>> human scent when the small pile was pick-up and transfered to the  
>> garden bed. I had no idea the strength of urine... the rain did  
>> not wash the urine away. The scent indicated to me that the  
>> charcoal had absorbed some urine and it is possible that it help  
>> to wet the charcoal.
>
> Great observation!! I wonder well urinated charcoal would wok well  
> as a Deer Repellent around gardens??
>>
>> During the early spring Richard and I dug around in this garden  
>> bed and found charcoal that was still dry. Rain water and soil had  
>> not saturated the piece of charcoal. This piece of charcoal may  
>> have not laid on the ground but came from the Weber. Again, this  
>> points to something else that assisted in the wetting process...  
>> urine? Bellingham gets around 35" (90 cm) per year.
>
> Interesting also. Could this perhaps be part of teh explanation for  
> why "nothing much hapens in teh first year" when adding charcoal to  
> soil?
>>
>> Yes, I will get more serious about recording data. Numbers are  
>> other's strong point. This is a fun exercise to work on and who  
>> knows we may help to lower the percentage of atmospheric CO2. I  
>> will sleep on that thought... be well-------Larry
>
> Yes, indeed... a "No Regrets" situation!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> On May 6, 2008, at 1:19 AM, MFH wrote:
>>
>>> Larry – many thanks for all the excellent photos. Some of your  
>>> results like the swiss chard are stunning.
>>>  Looks like a small concrete mixer in the background of one of  
>>> the photos. If a couple of river stones weighing a few pounds/ 
>>> kilos were added to e load of char, this should pulverise it  
>>> nicely in a few minutes.
>>>  Do you have any data that compares biomass weight of plants from  
>>> a char plot vs from an un-charred plot?
>>>  Max H
>>>    
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> ----
>>> *From:* Larry Williams [mailto:lwilliams at nas.com] *Sent:*  
>>> Tuesday, 6 May 2008 5:50 PM
>>> *To:* MFH
>>> *Cc:* Terra Preta
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Char sizes
>>>  Max and list members-------With the learned folks on this list,  
>>> I really need a comment or two on whether this set of pictures  
>>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/rchaard/336553821/in/ 
>>> set-72157594444994347/> represent an effective component to the  
>>> Terra Preta nova concept that is being explored in the temperate  
>>> Pacific Northwest.
>>>  Do note that the soil was/ is very high in organics and has been  
>>> so for around 12 years. I have no way of knowing if Dr. Wardle  
>>> tests apply to this situation or not. I do know that the Swiss  
>>> Chard above these chunks of charcoal was 42" high. The largest  
>>> that I have ever seen in this garden or anywhere else. This is  
>>> low fired charcoal made in the presence of wood smoke and  
>>> sizzling meat. Some on this list may remember the Weber charcoal  
>>> claim.
>>>  The garden soil was as rich as I could provide. And yes, I blew  
>>> the second year's result, I believe, with to much lime when I  
>>> have never used lime before. Do look at the link provided. Your  
>>> gardener-------Larry
>>>   -------------------------
>>> On May 5, 2008, at 6:37 PM, MFH wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect that this has a bearing on the effectiveness of the  
>>> added char, e.g. the available surface area for a 1mm char  
>>> particle is likely to be relatively much greater than for a piece  
>>> of char the size of a golf ball.
>>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ---
>>
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