[Terrapreta] Char sizes

[Kevin Chisholm]

Dear Larry

Larry Williams wrote:
> Kevin-------Thanks for the comments. Can you act on any of them?

Yes!
I can easily make good char in my gasifier, when operated in the 
appropriate manner.
1: I am definitely going to try the urinated charcoal for protection 
against deer and raccoons. The damned coons took 15% of my Sugar beet 
crop last year. (I had 20 beets in, and they took 3, the little buggers.

2: I'm very busy now, but hope to put in a charcoal test plot this 
summer. I have a bunch of wood pellet charcoal I made, and am going to 
try the "tire trick" to crush it. It is relatively strong, and would be 
a reasonable test. I think "fine is best", simply for the benefit of 
better distribution within the soil column.

3: I'm going to try "sunk char", to tap into the benefits of your 
observation.

>
> While sleeping on those thoughts, I was reminded of the US Forest 
> Service researcher, Alex Shigo 
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Shigo>, who discovered the defense 
> mechanism that trees have to protect themselves from disease. He was 
> in a search for how to best protect the board footage (cubic board 
> foot) within a forest for the marketplace.
>
> When we are threaten we can either fight or run. He noted that we are 
> bags of muscles supported by a skeleton system and without our 
> skeleton we could not move into action for our own defense. Where as, 
> a tree is unable to act except in a static position, i.e. in place. 
> There are some exception where trees can grow towards a nutrient 
> source and thus, over time, move their mass towards a better growing 
> situation.
>
> Shigo discovered that a tree had 5 defensive barriers that slow and 
> directs the movement of disease within a tree. He named this 
> protective system the Compartmentalization of Decay in Trees (CODIT) 
> and it is widely used in the arboricultural industries. If we are to 
> grow trees to be used in the production of charcoal then his research 
> findings will be helpful. He did think out of the box.

Cute!! I didn't know that. Thanks.
>
> One of the ideas that he promoted after his 35 years with the Forest 
> Service was to "Touch Trees". He wanted persons interested in 
> arboriculture to visually and physical work with trees. This is more 
> than to touch and feel. It is to observe and report without 
> judgement... in order to learn.
>
> Nay sayers will shoot holes in any ideas without a solid basis for why 
> the ideas don't work. Like in grade school, "show your work". This is 
> the only way that we will learn how best to use charcoal. My friend... 
> *iss on it. What does you charcoal tell you?

I find Accountants, Bankers, the Very Devout, and close-minded Engineers 
are especially devoid of original thought. ;-)
>
> The earth will teach us something yet. Be well-------Larry

Mother Nature is a bitch, but at least she is consistent. If we watch 
her moves, we can learn a lot.

Best wishes,

Kevin
>
>
> --------------------------------
> On May 6, 2008, at 2:44 AM, Kevin Chisholm wrote:
>
>> Dear Larry
>> \\
>> Larry Williams wrote:
>>> Max-------Richard Haard tried the cement mixer 
>>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/rchaard/396830225/in/set-72157594444994347/> 
>>> on some charcoal that we made and found it to hard to break up. For 
>>> that batch of charcoal the "landscaper two-step" (stomp-stomp) was 
>>> used on a concrete floor to greater effect. Since then we have 
>>> observed that charcoal that has been "wetted" allows the charcoal, 
>>> on most pieces, to break apart fairly easy with one's fingers. No, 
>>> we will not used our fingers to do the next cord-plus batch of 
>>> charcoal. I need to try wetting more charcoal in different ways to 
>>> get a sense of what I like best. The wetting process, I believe, is 
>>> an important part of the results that I had.
>>
>> OK! What about simply dumping the charcoal on a paved driveway, spray 
>> lightly with a hose, and drive back and forth over teh charcoal with 
>> a tractor?
>>
>>>
>>> Over a period of eight months I plucked pieces of charcoal from the 
>>> Weber grill and threw the pieces in a pile on the ground (well 
>>> rotted wood chips) on a weekly basis. This occurred over three 
>>> maritime seasons, two of which were wet. With a minimum of human 
>>> urine (three or four times) used as fertilizer, the charcoal and 
>>> charred wood laid on the ground. I was impressed with the rich human 
>>> scent when the small pile was pick-up and transfered to the garden 
>>> bed. I had no idea the strength of urine... the rain did not wash 
>>> the urine away. The scent indicated to me that the charcoal had 
>>> absorbed some urine and it is possible that it help to wet the charcoal.
>>
>> Great observation!! I wonder well urinated charcoal would wok well as 
>> a Deer Repellent around gardens??
>>>
>>> During the early spring Richard and I dug around in this garden bed 
>>> and found charcoal that was still dry. Rain water and soil had not 
>>> saturated the piece of charcoal. This piece of charcoal may have not 
>>> laid on the ground but came from the Weber. Again, this points to 
>>> something else that assisted in the wetting process... urine? 
>>> Bellingham gets around 35" (90 cm) per year.
>>
>> Interesting also. Could this perhaps be part of teh explanation for 
>> why "nothing much hapens in teh first year" when adding charcoal to soil?
>>>
>>> Yes, I will get more serious about recording data. Numbers are 
>>> other's strong point. This is a fun exercise to work on and who 
>>> knows we may help to lower the percentage of atmospheric CO2. I will 
>>> sleep on that thought... be well-------Larry
>>
>> Yes, indeed... a "No Regrets" situation!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------
>>> On May 6, 2008, at 1:19 AM, MFH wrote:
>>>
>>>> Larry – many thanks for all the excellent photos. Some of your 
>>>> results like the swiss chard are stunning.
>>>>  Looks like a small concrete mixer in the background of one of the 
>>>> photos. If a couple of river stones weighing a few pounds/kilos 
>>>> were added to e load of char, this should pulverise it nicely in a 
>>>> few minutes.
>>>>  Do you have any data that compares biomass weight of plants from a 
>>>> char plot vs from an un-charred plot?
>>>>  Max H
>>>>   
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Larry Williams [mailto:lwilliams at nas.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, 
>>>> 6 May 2008 5:50 PM
>>>> *To:* MFH
>>>> *Cc:* Terra Preta
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Char sizes
>>>>  Max and list members-------With the learned folks on this list, I 
>>>> really need a comment or two on whether this set of pictures 
>>>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/rchaard/336553821/in/set-72157594444994347/> 
>>>> represent an effective component to the Terra Preta nova concept 
>>>> that is being explored in the temperate Pacific Northwest.
>>>>  Do note that the soil was/ is very high in organics and has been 
>>>> so for around 12 years. I have no way of knowing if Dr. Wardle 
>>>> tests apply to this situation or not. I do know that the Swiss 
>>>> Chard above these chunks of charcoal was 42" high. The largest that 
>>>> I have ever seen in this garden or anywhere else. This is low fired 
>>>> charcoal made in the presence of wood smoke and sizzling meat. Some 
>>>> on this list may remember the Weber charcoal claim.
>>>>  The garden soil was as rich as I could provide. And yes, I blew 
>>>> the second year's result, I believe, with to much lime when I have 
>>>> never used lime before. Do look at the link provided. Your 
>>>> gardener-------Larry
>>>>   -------------------------
>>>> On May 5, 2008, at 6:37 PM, MFH wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that this has a bearing on the effectiveness of the added 
>>>> char, e.g. the available surface area for a 1mm char particle is 
>>>> likely to be relatively much greater than for a piece of char the 
>>>> size of a golf ball.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>