[Terrapreta] DEFORESTATION TO PRODUCE FOODS?

[Benjamin Domingo Bof]

Interview with Blairo Maggi: "Will you leave humanity starving or occupy new areas to produce food?" - 05/08/2008 

Locality: São Paulo - SP 
Source: Amazonia.org.br 
Link: http://www.amazonia.org.br 

  Thais Iervolino 

After having criticized the Mato Grosso deforestation report, released by the National Institute of Space Research (INPE), and making statements defending deforestation as a solution to the food crisis, the governor of the state of Mato Grosso, Blairo Maggi, had an exclusive interview with the site Amazonia.org.br. 

Last week, the newspaper Folha de S. Paul published an article in which he claimed that one of the possible solutions to the food crisis would be deforestation. 
  
My statement has been made within the food crisis context. As a matter of fact, the world does not have more area to increase food production. In Brazil, there are many conducive areas to some form of agriculture, such as the west of Sao Paulo and the east of Mato Grosso do Sul. But they are not very good areas for food agriculture. 

For soybeans, beans, maize and sunflower, these areas are considered marginal. Those areas do not benefit from very regular rainfall so the risks involved with food production is very important. But if you have sugar cane in this region, the plantation would do quite well. 

The return on investment in those food production places are not very good. Thus Mato Grosso uses only 8% of its land for food agriculture. Brazil, as a whole, uses a relatively small area in comparison to what it could use. 

Currently we have managed to grow our productivity, in an average of 1% per year. But consumption has grown in a range of 3% to 4% per year. In the long term, it just does not work. Then it has to be planed forward. In the future, we must have a responsible discussion. Will you let the humanity starving or occupy new areas to produce food?

And the areas that exist for the incorporation of agriculture are not very large. The people think: "Oh, we will occupy the Amazon to produce food and ethanol". It is not possible. In the whole Amazon, only a small portion can be use and serve for this [planting]. 

Again: is it possible to increase productivity if consumption increases greatly. The food crisis is real. In my assessment, Brazil is making its own lesson. We are growing. Over the last 20 years, we increased our production from 30 million tonnes to 120 million tonnes. We are feeding the country population, there are no problems of supply, we are even selling food for the rest of the world. 

You mentioned that in the future it will be necessary to clear-cut. What is the prospect of this "future"? 
I think that we can maintain the growth pace, with gains in biotechnology and productivity during about ten years. Until that time we can keep things as they are. 

Then we will have to choose between planting in rainy areas, where production is guaranteed, or occupy marginal areas, which bring many problems for farmers. The lack of rain causes important losses in Sao Paulo or in Mato Grosso do Sul. To have food in these regions, we must make a policy of guaranteed incomes and prices, if not the producers will colapse. 

The MT will take any measure to contain the food crisis? 
We can not do anything more than what we actually do. To produce more, we need access to new areas. Even the MT producers have decided that they will not increase any more the planting areas. Firstly because of the environmental issues. Then because, for more than 20 or 30 years, the world eats a very cheap food, and this brings debts for agriculture. The decision is that you can not open new areas, or only in case of a great agreement, because we can not do it in illegality.

Recently your State has been quite criticised about the deforestation problem. What do you think of the policies that the Ministry of Environment is making to solve it? 
If you look at the MT deforestation graphics, since 1984, you will not see deforestation levels lower than those of 2005. The reduction since 2005 has been constant. In the latter period, the data showed 120 km ², 140 km ² of deforestation, which are around 12 thousand hectares. In terms of territorial size it is very small. Now the problem is not the size but the illegality. 

The policies of the State government have followed the legislation, and the Ministry decision of blocking these areas is correct. Those who clear-cut will think a bit more: "I'll clear, I'll spend money and then I won't be able to use the property". 

I think that this is the policy. We have also deliver the zoning to the assembly. I hope that this document will be able to guide the State of MT, showing where agriculture can be made, where are the conservation areas, etc. 

What is your opinion on the Arc of Fire operation in the State? 
The numbers that were placed as deforestation, of the Deforestation Detection in Real-time (Deter, Detecção de Desmatamento em tempo real), shows a huge decline [after the operation]. The MT participated in about 80% of the reduction, although I still continue contesting the data. 

I also gave a document to the President of the Republic. We will make an audit, I mean, the government should make an audit about the data that have been given. 

The state of the MT does not agree with those numbers. Until today we did not agree because the methodology was different from the one traditionally employed. If you collect data with a methodology and then change it, the results are different. 

I want to, and I have insisted on that, correct statistically the data of MT which are not those that have been disclosed. The MT effort against deforestation is very important. Producers who have address, CPF (Register of Individual) and liability do not make this. The problem is that we have land grabbing, people invade the land, clear-cut a zone and then think that they own it. So in addition to the environmental issue, we also have the land division problem, and the State fight to put this into order. 

What measures are taken by the government of MT to reduce deforestation? 
The same than the Ministry of the Environment takes: surveillance, control by satellite, we have people in the field, helicopter flying, we sue all the people who deforest in the wrong way. We are not only responsible for the deforestation, but also for the control of the forest in the State because this task has been transferred by Ibama in 2005. 

Our territory is really huge, but we do not have a lot of resources. We have an helicopter, this is very expensive, we don't have financial help from the Government [federal], or anyone. Thus, within the possibilities that we have, we make what is in our competence. Figures from the reduction of deforestation, that occurs here since 2005, clearly show that the government has done the necessary actions to reduce the deforestation in the state. 

The IBAMA disclosed the list of the embargoed areas. Into it, the institute points out that your company would be embargoed... 
First, nobody is embargoed. It is a list of irregularities. Specifically, the Amaggi [the Governor of the MT company], bought an area of waste wood. Since it has an industry in Cuiaba, we need steam for the energy to the soybeans crushing. That's why we bought this area of waste wood. The IBAMA, then, asked for the environmental licensing. 
  

  A staffmemeber who was 'in the know' regarding the events [of the company] sent a copy of the process, the Institute received it, but still it wanted to sue the company. Then, it is not a deforestation issue but a bureaucratic one, between our Secretary of the Environment and the company. 

And you had to pay a fine? 
I do not know because I am not in the company. It seems that they have given a fine, but the company is appealing because it had no fault in this process. 

Could you Comment the fact that you have received the prize "Gold Chainsaw", delivered by the non-governmental organisation Greenpeace, which is equivalent to the Champion of Deforestation Award. 
Firstly, it was a long time ago. I even say to the producers here that this chainsaw is not mine but theirs. Because my company, for over ten years, has not opened any new areas. 

Now, as governor, it is logical that I represent the state for good things and bad things as well. The other day I had a meeting with the timber industry and they said that they have no link with deforestation. I said to them that they were also responsible because they buy illegal timber, and this supports the continuation of defrestation. 

I am obliged to accept, with resignation , the chainsaw award because I am the governor of the state. But not as the owner of my company. This I do not accept in any way.
  


       
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