[Terrapreta] Energy Source

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Greg,

Yes, I can!  See the 2nd and 3rd pages of the attached document, "Encyclopedia of Energy.pdf".  Thanks for the description of electrolysis in slat water, Greg.  I'll have to study this more.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Greg and April<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> 
  To: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; Terra Preta<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 1:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Energy Source


  Could you please document the efficiency of plant's?


  As to the hydrogen,  ( from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen> );
  Pure hydrogen-oxygen flames burn in the ultraviolet color range and are nearly invisible to the naked eye, as illustrated by the faintness of flame from the main Space Shuttle engines (as opposed to the easily visible flames from the SRBs).


  If there is any splatter at all ( from the water with salt in it ), some of that is going to contain sodium, and it takes very little in the way of sodium to give a yellow color to any flame ( and don't forget, as the electrolysis is occurring the concentration of salt in the water is going to increase ).


  The increase in conductivity in salt water increases the rate of water splitting because the Cations and Anions of the salt, help neutralize the formation of acidic and basic conditions around the electrodes of which increases the resistance of electrical flow - thus slowing the reaction.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis_of_water> 


  Greg H.  

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
    To: David Yarrow<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> ; Greg and April<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> 
    Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 10:42
    Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Energy Source


    Hi David,  Greg,

    The photosynthetic efficiency of plants, that is to convert solar energy + water + CO2 into sugars, plant cellulose, and lignin, etc. is at best 3-4%.  I believe sea born algae is the most efficient and most plants are at <2%.

    Hydrogen burns invisibly mostly.  Most of its spectral lines are either outside of visible spectrum or are to small to register in the human eye and compete against daylight.  I'm not sure what burning hydrogen looks like in the dark?  I suppose Sodium-Na could be liberated from an electrolysis reaction in salt water but I don't think so.  Sodium is not a gas at the same temperatures that water is a liquid.  Electrolysis reactions do not boil water first and then turn it into a gas.  Electrolysis forms bubbles of gases, oxygen at the cathode and hydrogen at the anode sites.  I suppose Sodium cations (Na+) could be entrained in an H2 gas column bubbling forth from the anode, but I don't know how?

    That hydrogen from electrolysis in salt water would burn yellow is indeed curious.  I should like to see this myself.  Electrolysis of salt water by itself is another curiosity.  It seems to me that salt water is more highly conductive than fresh water.  Would not there be significant current conducted directly between the anode and cathode, so that less would be available to energize and crack the H2O molecules of the water?
    I would be very surprised if electrolysis of salt water could even work, let alone that it were more energy efficient than with fresh water?  But I don't know for sure.  I'll study this.

    Regards,

    SKB

      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Greg and April<mailto:gregandapril at earthlink.net> 
      To: David Yarrow<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com> ; terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
      Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 11:10 AM
      Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Energy Source


      Why do you find it curious that the flames are yellow?    That's the color that sodium gives off.

      As it is, the reason plants do it, is that they are built that way, and they can process sun light with a fairly high degree of efficiency, and do it over the entire course of the year.

      Greg H.

        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: David Yarrow<mailto:dyarrow at nycap.rr.com> 
        To: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
        Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 21:55
        Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Energy Source


        burning water?  my favorite energy source!  also for plants:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8utkoK2DhA<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8utkoK2DhA>

        the video uses ordinary table salt -- sodium chloride -- and 20mhz radio waves to split water and ignite the hydrogen.  curious the flame burns orange instead of blue.

        i believe using a more carefully selected frequency, and the right trace elements instead of sodium, will increase the energy efficiency of this RF hydrolysis.  the RF fredquency should be chosen to resonate and distort the hydrogen-oxygen bonds in water.  the trace elements should provide multiple valence energy states to initiate a stepped electron orbital cascade.  tune the frequency and the valence energy levels, and with a small amount of electric energy, a large volume of hydrogen can be released andcaptured intead of immediately ignited.

        plants do it; why can't we.

        for a green & peaceful planet,
        David Yarrow
        44 Gilligan Rd, E Greenbush, NY 12061
        www.championtrees.org<http://www.championtrees.org/>
        www.OnondagaLakePeaceFestival.org<http://www.onondagalakepeacefestival.org/>
        www.farmandfood.org<http://www.farmandfood.org/>
        www.SeaAgri.com<http://www.seaagri.com/>
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