[Terrapreta] FW: indigenous practices

[Nikolaus Foidl]

------ Forwarded Message
From: Nikolaus Foidl <nfoidl at desa.com.bo>
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 08:40:02 -0400
To: Richard Haard <richrd at nas.com>
Conversation: [Terrapreta] indigenous practices
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] indigenous practices

Dear Richard!

Please don't misinterpret my statement. Living now at least 25 years in
several countries from Africa to Central America and now South America were
I had always the chance to live close to indigenous people I always was
amazed about there very practical way to cope with daily problems. A lot of
wisdom, loosing over time the explanations for the ³why² are simply
transferred into laws of behavior or rules how to do it although the ³why²
got lost. I personally think that is as well the role of most religions, to
preserve the function or use of a once gathered knowledge over time without
transporting the ³ why² over the millennia's.

Health for sure was one of the most important issues in any time 2000 years
ago or now. As a self protecting individual burying your excrements to not
alarm everybody whose pray you might be, to the preventive protection
against diseases and infectious virus, bacteria or fungi, all surviving
cultures have developed quite similar rules and ways how to deal with trash
and waste in communities.

I doubt that the initial idea was to get an accumulation of different
minerals and amino acids and other growth enhancing substances mixed
together and cooked in a complicated heat and anaerobic treatment to come up
with a much higher fertility then the surroundings. I am , based on
observations, quite sure, that the knowledge and the desire to live under
health enhancing or preserving circumstances was the driving force here.
I don't deny that the secondary effect of growth enhancing was observed
later on as well, and the use of the build and enriched soil was well come.
The basic motivation which lead as well to a second result is still the
hygiene reason ( waste and disease management) which in itself bears a huge
progress in applied intelligence. I do not want to underestimate the
indigenous intelligence and capacity of managing there environment, this
would be huge error and un-pardonable arrogance from my side, on the other
hand I do not want to interpret more into actions because then, the whole
development of those indigenous communities appears even more inconsistent.

On the other hand if we take actual examples of discrepancies in existing
societies were 2000 years of development differences are living close
together I am maybe wrong again. ( Pakistanis atomic Industry and tribal
areas, Iran's atomic industry and mountain people standard of development
and living, Bolivia with a petrol refinery next to the still only hunting
and gathering native tribes( pre agro cultures) not to speak about
California's or New York's Intelligence and the small dominating Bush
administration etc. etc.). So discrepancies in daily life are still
observable and I possibly underestimate the social intelligence of the
Amazonian people 2000 years ago.

But anyhow the history was , how do we repeat what already happened?

Best regards and no intention to hurt anyone past or present.
Nikolaus


On 5/14/08 1:45 AM, "Richard Haard" <richrd at nas.com> wrote:

> Robert - i have been puzzled by this statement outlined below in red. Reading
> Christoph Steiners dissertation, Slash and Char as Alternative to Slash and
> Burn, ­  
> soil charcoal amendments maintain soil fertility and establish a carbon sink
> 
> I have indication that indigenous practices are intentional knowledge based
> soil fertility management. Whether you or Nikolaus I am curious what is basis
> of this assumption, as my Inuit friends still to this day rescue stranded
> 'expeditions' using their traditional knowledge in the far north and perhaps
> we need to give credit where it is due for the soil management skills of these
> indigenous people of the Amazon.
> 
> From Chapter 1, page 35, 'Indigenous Knowledge of Terra Preta formation
> 
> clip from abstract
> 
> quote
> 
>  In order to gather
> more information about the creation of Terra
> Preta (TP) we describe indigenous soil fertility
> management; analyzed managed and unmanaged
> soil and compare soil chemical and micro-
> biological parameters with those of prehistoric TP
> (TPp); and, discuss the formation of TP under
> indigenous soil fertility management. Fire and
> organic matter (OM) are the main components of
> indigenous soil fertility management. Small fires
> are used to create burned soil (Terra Queimada),
> and burned organic materials (ash and charred
> residues) are used to increase the fertility in
> patches for special plants like medicinal plants
> and vegetables. After a burn (Terra Queimada)
> the soil had a strong scent of pyroligneous acid
> (Terra Cheirosa) which is stimulating soil micro-
> organisms 
> 
> unquote
> 
> Yet this is present day - how can you presume to know the motive of people who
> are long gone other that what their heirs are doing today?
> 
> 
>> 
>>> Dear Nikolaus,
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Once again, you give them all, and this is the only response!!!
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Boys and Girls, when someone of higher leaning speaks, "listen" and "learn"
>>> and don't just comment because you want to add without substance!
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Nikolaus in your own words during our correspondents, "Terra Preta was
>>> formed as a waste management practice, not a soil management practice" So
>>> any who claim different, then find fund and send students to South America
>>> and prove this otherwise!
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Biochar is a start, biochar enhancement is a next step but agri engineering
>>> is the real solution!!!
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Rob.
>>>  
>>>  
> 


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