[Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture – how much carbon dioxide do trees really capture?

[Kevin Chisholm]

Dear Loulou gold wrote:
> Well, Kevin, it's time for me to call it quits on this one. I think I 
> have provided lots of responses and lots of references. There's no 
> more for me to do.
>
> To summarize simply -- I hug the primary forest and embrace a terra 
> preta style agriculture. My only shift from the past is that I now see 
> that a consciously earth-healing agriculture has a vitally necessary 
> role to play. I didn't trade in my old tree-hugging views as much as 
> place them into the context of an even larger understanding that now 
> includes agriculture.
>
> We TOTALLY disagree on the carbon storage role of forests. The Amazon 
> forest now holds in historically stable but now fragile storage the 
> carbon equivalent of 11 full years of current total CO2 emission 
> worldwide.
Wrong!! We totally AGREE!! :-) Given that the Amazon Forests are stable, 
that means that they cannot store any more. Given that the are fragile, 
they are in danger of releasing it.

What a wonderful opportunity to improve or lot by sensibly removing the 
overmature species, put the "good wood" to its highest value, and make 
Char for TP out of the trash?

My concern is that the classic Tree Hugger Philosophy blocks this 
positive option.

Best wishes,

Kevin
>
> hugs,
>
> lou
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 12:11 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net 
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Loulou gold wrote:
>     > Hmmm. Did ya watch the video?
>     No. Couldn't get it open.
>     > It clearly states that soil and water are the main limiting factors.
>     That is no great revelation.
>     > Therefore, if you want to have plants and trees pulling CO2 out
>     of the
>     > atmosphere, you better work on soil fertility and its ability to
>     > retain water. Perfect tasks for TP.
>     The problem I see is that Tree Huggers seem to be against Man messing
>     with Forests. This being the case, it will be difficult for TP to
>     attain
>     its maximum potential
>     >
>     > I don't consider myself as a spokesperson for the tree-huggers.
>     You might not be an Officially Designated Tree Hugger spokesman,
>     but you
>     seem to promote Tree Hugger beliefs and positions. I seek to
>     understand
>     the Tree Hugger Position, and to see how it can work with Terra Preta
>     that is made from char that comes from trees.
>     > Actually, across the past year, Terra Preta maybe transforming my
>     > awareness and ideology more toward conscious farming.
>     That is great. We are all here to learn. I wish to learn the general
>     position on Tree Huggers with respect to using trees for
>     production of TP
>
>     > The main inspiration of TP for me is that the El Dorado story says
>     > that once there was a civilization of high density populations
>     living
>     > in harmony with nature and  forests. This is very contrary to the
>     > history of western civilization which advanced via deforestation.
>     > Indeed, it is so different that it might constitute a vitally
>     > necessary paradigm shift and carry us from the issues of
>     scarcity into
>     > the joys of abundance. I don't know that this is true. I suspect it
>     > might be. I want to find out.
>     Does this mean that you used to be a Tree Hugger, and now seeing
>     errors
>     in your previous ways? :-) If so, how do you see Tree Hugging changing
>     in the future, so that it becomes a sustainable philosophy?
>     >
>     > I believe strongly that we need to stop logging any more intact
>     > primary forests. A complete halt is unlikely. All steps of
>     avoided or
>     > reduced deforestation need to be rewarded. Carbon credits are a
>     good way.
>     Preserving our Old Growth Forests is a wonderful idea, which I fully
>     support for many reasons. However, I definitely do not support
>     preservation of Old Growth Forests as a means of Carbon Sequestration.
>     Since trees rot, they do not sequester carbon, but rather, tehy
>     provide
>     "short term immobilization." I might be wrong, but I feel that
>     promoting
>     wood as a means of sequestering Carbon is totally and absolutely
>     wrong,
>     and it derails the great potential for TP to truly sequester carbon.
>
>     Be very wary of Carbon Credits. I think it is a major big time
>     mistake
>     to hang the future of TP on Carbon Credits. Do a search on "carbon
>     credit scam", and get 2,260 hits, all of which I have looked at being
>     very interesting. Like Alice in Wonderland was wont to say "Start
>     at the
>     beginning." See: http://www.carboncreditscam.com/
>     >
>     > As far as as intelligent forest management is concerned, I
>     recommend
>     > that you check out the Menominee Tribal Forest which has won many
>     > awards and recognitions.
>     > http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html
>     <http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html>
>     > <http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html>
>     I do not wish to demean their good efforts, but virtually any
>     competent
>     Forestry Engineer can configure a Forest Management Program that will
>     accomplish the desired end goal, within natural limits. Just tell him
>     (her) what you want done, then he (she) can do it. You want Mushrooms,
>     he can do it. You want Pulpwood, he can do it. You want a Park, he can
>     do it. You want logs, he can do it. You want a healthy diverse
>     nonuniform aged stand, he can do it. You want Agriforestry, he can do
>     it. You want "sustainability, he can do it. You want fuelwood, he
>     can do
>     it. You want all the above in one package, he can do it. Forestry
>     Engineers are not incompetent and irresponsible. Au contraire. The
>     problem is the people who steer them. The solution is in the
>     people who
>     steer them.
>
>     So, please "come out of the woods" and tell us what the Tree Huggers
>     could live with now, and where you feel they should change, so that TP
>     can progress using forest wood for char.
>
>     Best wishes,
>
>     Kevin
>     >
>     > hugs,
>     >
>     > lou
>     >
>     > On Dec 5, 2007 10:12 AM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net
>     <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
>     > <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>>
>     wrote:
>     >
>     >     Dear David and Lou
>     >
>     >     Most of us on the Terra Preta List have an "environmentally
>     >     responsible
>     >     leaning", a sense of beauty, and an appreciation of the good
>     things a
>     >     tree can do. However, what I see is that extremism seldom
>     works in an
>     >     optimal manner. Mother Nature is smart, and she seems to favor
>     >     diversity. It is absolutely impossible for Man to exist on
>     this Earth
>     >     without interacting with Mother Nature. Either we get
>     Divorced and one
>     >     of us leaves, or we find ways that we can live on Earth in a
>     >     sustainable
>     >     basis. Otherwise, one of us will die, and the other will be
>     seriously
>     >     injured.
>     >
>     >     As Representatives of our "Resident Tree Huggers", what
>     would you and
>     >     David recommend as tree cutting guidelines  acceptable to
>     the Tree
>     >     Huggers?
>     >
>     >     Under what conditions would the Tree Hugging Community agree
>     to using
>     >     wood as a source of carbon for Terra Preta?
>     >
>     >     Kevin
>     >
>     >     lou gold wrote:
>     >     > Good Morning to All,
>     >     >
>     >     > Another good one from ABC.
>     >     > http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm
>     >     >
>     >     > I draw the lesson that if one wants trees and other plants to
>     >     capture
>     >     > carbon it's best to work on renewing the soil.
>     >     >
>     >     > hugs,   lou
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >     >
>     >    
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >     >
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>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > http://lougold.blogspot.com/
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> -- 
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