[Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture – how much carbon dioxide do trees really capture?

[lou gold]

SORRY, NO AGREEMENT ABOUT THE AMAZON.



On Dec 5, 2007 12:58 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote:

> Dear Loulou gold wrote:
> > Well, Kevin, it's time for me to call it quits on this one. I think I
> > have provided lots of responses and lots of references. There's no
> > more for me to do.
> >
> > To summarize simply -- I hug the primary forest and embrace a terra
> > preta style agriculture. My only shift from the past is that I now see
> > that a consciously earth-healing agriculture has a vitally necessary
> > role to play. I didn't trade in my old tree-hugging views as much as
> > place them into the context of an even larger understanding that now
> > includes agriculture.
> >
> > We TOTALLY disagree on the carbon storage role of forests. The Amazon
> > forest now holds in historically stable but now fragile storage the
> > carbon equivalent of 11 full years of current total CO2 emission
> > worldwide.
> Wrong!! We totally AGREE!! :-) Given that the Amazon Forests are stable,
> that means that they cannot store any more. Given that the are fragile,
> they are in danger of releasing it.
>
> What a wonderful opportunity to improve or lot by sensibly removing the
> overmature species, put the "good wood" to its highest value, and make
> Char for TP out of the trash?
>
> My concern is that the classic Tree Hugger Philosophy blocks this
> positive option.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
> >
> > hugs,
> >
> > lou
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2007 12:11 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> > <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear Loulou gold wrote:
> >     > Hmmm. Did ya watch the video?
> >     No. Couldn't get it open.
> >     > It clearly states that soil and water are the main limiting
> factors.
> >     That is no great revelation.
> >     > Therefore, if you want to have plants and trees pulling CO2 out
> >     of the
> >     > atmosphere, you better work on soil fertility and its ability to
> >     > retain water. Perfect tasks for TP.
> >     The problem I see is that Tree Huggers seem to be against Man
> messing
> >     with Forests. This being the case, it will be difficult for TP to
> >     attain
> >     its maximum potential
> >     >
> >     > I don't consider myself as a spokesperson for the tree-huggers.
> >     You might not be an Officially Designated Tree Hugger spokesman,
> >     but you
> >     seem to promote Tree Hugger beliefs and positions. I seek to
> >     understand
> >     the Tree Hugger Position, and to see how it can work with Terra
> Preta
> >     that is made from char that comes from trees.
> >     > Actually, across the past year, Terra Preta maybe transforming my
> >     > awareness and ideology more toward conscious farming.
> >     That is great. We are all here to learn. I wish to learn the general
> >     position on Tree Huggers with respect to using trees for
> >     production of TP
> >
> >     > The main inspiration of TP for me is that the El Dorado story says
> >     > that once there was a civilization of high density populations
> >     living
> >     > in harmony with nature and  forests. This is very contrary to the
> >     > history of western civilization which advanced via deforestation.
> >     > Indeed, it is so different that it might constitute a vitally
> >     > necessary paradigm shift and carry us from the issues of
> >     scarcity into
> >     > the joys of abundance. I don't know that this is true. I suspect
> it
> >     > might be. I want to find out.
> >     Does this mean that you used to be a Tree Hugger, and now seeing
> >     errors
> >     in your previous ways? :-) If so, how do you see Tree Hugging
> changing
> >     in the future, so that it becomes a sustainable philosophy?
> >     >
> >     > I believe strongly that we need to stop logging any more intact
> >     > primary forests. A complete halt is unlikely. All steps of
> >     avoided or
> >     > reduced deforestation need to be rewarded. Carbon credits are a
> >     good way.
> >     Preserving our Old Growth Forests is a wonderful idea, which I fully
> >     support for many reasons. However, I definitely do not support
> >     preservation of Old Growth Forests as a means of Carbon
> Sequestration.
> >     Since trees rot, they do not sequester carbon, but rather, tehy
> >     provide
> >     "short term immobilization." I might be wrong, but I feel that
> >     promoting
> >     wood as a means of sequestering Carbon is totally and absolutely
> >     wrong,
> >     and it derails the great potential for TP to truly sequester carbon.
> >
> >     Be very wary of Carbon Credits. I think it is a major big time
> >     mistake
> >     to hang the future of TP on Carbon Credits. Do a search on "carbon
> >     credit scam", and get 2,260 hits, all of which I have looked at
> being
> >     very interesting. Like Alice in Wonderland was wont to say "Start
> >     at the
> >     beginning." See: http://www.carboncreditscam.com/
> >     >
> >     > As far as as intelligent forest management is concerned, I
> >     recommend
> >     > that you check out the Menominee Tribal Forest which has won many
> >     > awards and recognitions.
> >     > http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html
> >     <http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html>
> >     > <http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html>
> >     I do not wish to demean their good efforts, but virtually any
> >     competent
> >     Forestry Engineer can configure a Forest Management Program that
> will
> >     accomplish the desired end goal, within natural limits. Just tell
> him
> >     (her) what you want done, then he (she) can do it. You want
> Mushrooms,
> >     he can do it. You want Pulpwood, he can do it. You want a Park, he
> can
> >     do it. You want logs, he can do it. You want a healthy diverse
> >     nonuniform aged stand, he can do it. You want Agriforestry, he can
> do
> >     it. You want "sustainability, he can do it. You want fuelwood, he
> >     can do
> >     it. You want all the above in one package, he can do it. Forestry
> >     Engineers are not incompetent and irresponsible. Au contraire. The
> >     problem is the people who steer them. The solution is in the
> >     people who
> >     steer them.
> >
> >     So, please "come out of the woods" and tell us what the Tree Huggers
> >     could live with now, and where you feel they should change, so that
> TP
> >     can progress using forest wood for char.
> >
> >     Best wishes,
> >
> >     Kevin
> >     >
> >     > hugs,
> >     >
> >     > lou
> >     >
> >     > On Dec 5, 2007 10:12 AM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> >     <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> >     > <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>>
> >     wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     Dear David and Lou
> >     >
> >     >     Most of us on the Terra Preta List have an "environmentally
> >     >     responsible
> >     >     leaning", a sense of beauty, and an appreciation of the good
> >     things a
> >     >     tree can do. However, what I see is that extremism seldom
> >     works in an
> >     >     optimal manner. Mother Nature is smart, and she seems to favor
> >     >     diversity. It is absolutely impossible for Man to exist on
> >     this Earth
> >     >     without interacting with Mother Nature. Either we get
> >     Divorced and one
> >     >     of us leaves, or we find ways that we can live on Earth in a
> >     >     sustainable
> >     >     basis. Otherwise, one of us will die, and the other will be
> >     seriously
> >     >     injured.
> >     >
> >     >     As Representatives of our "Resident Tree Huggers", what
> >     would you and
> >     >     David recommend as tree cutting guidelines  acceptable to
> >     the Tree
> >     >     Huggers?
> >     >
> >     >     Under what conditions would the Tree Hugging Community agree
> >     to using
> >     >     wood as a source of carbon for Terra Preta?
> >     >
> >     >     Kevin
> >     >
> >     >     lou gold wrote:
> >     >     > Good Morning to All,
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Another good one from ABC.
> >     >     > http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm
> >     >     >
> >     >     > I draw the lesson that if one wants trees and other plants
> to
> >     >     capture
> >     >     > carbon it's best to work on renewing the soil.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > hugs,   lou
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     >     >
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> >     <mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
> >     >     >
> >     >
> >
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
> >     <
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/>
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> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > --
> >     > http://lougold.blogspot.com/
> >     > http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://lougold.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/
>
>
>


-- 
http://lougold.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/
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