[Terrapreta] C02 Tree Capture – how much carbon dioxide do trees really capture?
Kevin Chisholm
kchisholm at ca.inter.net
Wed Dec 5 10:37:39 EST 2007
Dear Lou
lou gold wrote:
> SORRY, NO AGREEMENT ABOUT THE AMAZON.
No agreement??? Are you just being disagreeable, or do you have a
rational basis for your disagreement?
I agree with you that the Amazon Forests contain a huge tonnage of carbon.
I agree with you that the forests are now storing this carbon in a
stable manner.
Would you agree with me that if the Amazon Forests are stable, they are
not increasing the tonnage of carbon they store?
I agree with you that the Amazon Forests are fragile.
Would you agree with me that there are ways that Man can interact with
the Amazonian Forests and strengthen them?
Would you agree with me that some of teh Amazonian Forests are in a
state of overmaturity, and if teh overmature and dying trees were
removed, that the remaining forest would be more healthy and less fragile?
Would you agree that some of this overmature wood has large economic
value, and that it could be sold off to create livelihoods for local
people, and that the wastes could be turned into char for Terra Preta?
Would you agree that it is better to make Char and TP out of waste wood,
rather than letting it rot and release its carbon back into the active
Biosphere?
I would think that we fundamentally agree on a lot of things about the
Amazon, and its forests.
Best wishes,
Kevin
>
>
>
> On Dec 5, 2007 12:58 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>
> Dear Loulou gold wrote:
> > Well, Kevin, it's time for me to call it quits on this one. I
> think I
> > have provided lots of responses and lots of references. There's no
> > more for me to do.
> >
> > To summarize simply -- I hug the primary forest and embrace a terra
> > preta style agriculture. My only shift from the past is that I
> now see
> > that a consciously earth-healing agriculture has a vitally
> necessary
> > role to play. I didn't trade in my old tree-hugging views as much as
> > place them into the context of an even larger understanding that now
> > includes agriculture.
> >
> > We TOTALLY disagree on the carbon storage role of forests. The
> Amazon
> > forest now holds in historically stable but now fragile storage the
> > carbon equivalent of 11 full years of current total CO2 emission
> > worldwide.
> Wrong!! We totally AGREE!! :-) Given that the Amazon Forests are
> stable,
> that means that they cannot store any more. Given that the are
> fragile,
> they are in danger of releasing it.
>
> What a wonderful opportunity to improve or lot by sensibly
> removing the
> overmature species, put the "good wood" to its highest value, and
> make
> Char for TP out of the trash?
>
> My concern is that the classic Tree Hugger Philosophy blocks this
> positive option.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
> >
> > hugs,
> >
> > lou
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2007 12:11 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> > <mailto: kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Loulou gold wrote:
> > > Hmmm. Did ya watch the video?
> > No. Couldn't get it open.
> > > It clearly states that soil and water are the main
> limiting factors.
> > That is no great revelation.
> > > Therefore, if you want to have plants and trees pulling
> CO2 out
> > of the
> > > atmosphere, you better work on soil fertility and its
> ability to
> > > retain water. Perfect tasks for TP.
> > The problem I see is that Tree Huggers seem to be against
> Man messing
> > with Forests. This being the case, it will be difficult for
> TP to
> > attain
> > its maximum potential
> > >
> > > I don't consider myself as a spokesperson for the
> tree-huggers.
> > You might not be an Officially Designated Tree Hugger spokesman,
> > but you
> > seem to promote Tree Hugger beliefs and positions. I seek to
> > understand
> > the Tree Hugger Position, and to see how it can work with
> Terra Preta
> > that is made from char that comes from trees.
> > > Actually, across the past year, Terra Preta maybe
> transforming my
> > > awareness and ideology more toward conscious farming.
> > That is great. We are all here to learn. I wish to learn the
> general
> > position on Tree Huggers with respect to using trees for
> > production of TP
> >
> > > The main inspiration of TP for me is that the El Dorado
> story says
> > > that once there was a civilization of high density
> populations
> > living
> > > in harmony with nature and forests. This is very contrary
> to the
> > > history of western civilization which advanced via
> deforestation.
> > > Indeed, it is so different that it might constitute a vitally
> > > necessary paradigm shift and carry us from the issues of
> > scarcity into
> > > the joys of abundance. I don't know that this is true. I
> suspect it
> > > might be. I want to find out.
> > Does this mean that you used to be a Tree Hugger, and now seeing
> > errors
> > in your previous ways? :-) If so, how do you see Tree
> Hugging changing
> > in the future, so that it becomes a sustainable philosophy?
> > >
> > > I believe strongly that we need to stop logging any more
> intact
> > > primary forests. A complete halt is unlikely. All steps of
> > avoided or
> > > reduced deforestation need to be rewarded. Carbon credits
> are a
> > good way.
> > Preserving our Old Growth Forests is a wonderful idea, which
> I fully
> > support for many reasons. However, I definitely do not support
> > preservation of Old Growth Forests as a means of Carbon
> Sequestration.
> > Since trees rot, they do not sequester carbon, but rather, tehy
> > provide
> > "short term immobilization." I might be wrong, but I feel that
> > promoting
> > wood as a means of sequestering Carbon is totally and
> absolutely
> > wrong,
> > and it derails the great potential for TP to truly sequester
> carbon.
> >
> > Be very wary of Carbon Credits. I think it is a major big time
> > mistake
> > to hang the future of TP on Carbon Credits. Do a search on
> "carbon
> > credit scam", and get 2,260 hits, all of which I have looked
> at being
> > very interesting. Like Alice in Wonderland was wont to say
> "Start
> > at the
> > beginning." See: http://www.carboncreditscam.com/
> > >
> > > As far as as intelligent forest management is concerned, I
> > recommend
> > > that you check out the Menominee Tribal Forest which has
> won many
> > > awards and recognitions.
> > > http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html
> > < http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html>
> > > <http://www.menominee.edu/sdi/RAndEMission.html>
> > I do not wish to demean their good efforts, but virtually any
> > competent
> > Forestry Engineer can configure a Forest Management Program
> that will
> > accomplish the desired end goal, within natural limits. Just
> tell him
> > (her) what you want done, then he (she) can do it. You want
> Mushrooms,
> > he can do it. You want Pulpwood, he can do it. You want a
> Park, he can
> > do it. You want logs, he can do it. You want a healthy diverse
> > nonuniform aged stand, he can do it. You want Agriforestry,
> he can do
> > it. You want "sustainability, he can do it. You want
> fuelwood, he
> > can do
> > it. You want all the above in one package, he can do it.
> Forestry
> > Engineers are not incompetent and irresponsible. Au
> contraire. The
> > problem is the people who steer them. The solution is in the
> > people who
> > steer them.
> >
> > So, please "come out of the woods" and tell us what the Tree
> Huggers
> > could live with now, and where you feel they should change,
> so that TP
> > can progress using forest wood for char.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Kevin
> > >
> > > hugs,
> > >
> > > lou
> > >
> > > On Dec 5, 2007 10:12 AM, Kevin Chisholm
> <kchisholm at ca.inter.net <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> > <mailto: kchisholm at ca.inter.net <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>
> > > <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>>>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear David and Lou
> > >
> > > Most of us on the Terra Preta List have an
> "environmentally
> > > responsible
> > > leaning", a sense of beauty, and an appreciation of
> the good
> > things a
> > > tree can do. However, what I see is that extremism seldom
> > works in an
> > > optimal manner. Mother Nature is smart, and she seems
> to favor
> > > diversity. It is absolutely impossible for Man to exist on
> > this Earth
> > > without interacting with Mother Nature. Either we get
> > Divorced and one
> > > of us leaves, or we find ways that we can live on
> Earth in a
> > > sustainable
> > > basis. Otherwise, one of us will die, and the other
> will be
> > seriously
> > > injured.
> > >
> > > As Representatives of our "Resident Tree Huggers", what
> > would you and
> > > David recommend as tree cutting guidelines acceptable to
> > the Tree
> > > Huggers?
> > >
> > > Under what conditions would the Tree Hugging Community
> agree
> > to using
> > > wood as a source of carbon for Terra Preta?
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > > lou gold wrote:
> > > > Good Morning to All,
> > > >
> > > > Another good one from ABC.
> > > > http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm
> <http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1901661.htm>
> > > >
> > > > I draw the lesson that if one wants trees and other
> plants to
> > > capture
> > > > carbon it's best to work on renewing the soil.
> > > >
> > > > hugs, lou
> > > >
>
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