[Terrapreta] Durability of charcoal as carbon sink?

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Edward,

Welcome to the group and to this discussion. The summary of your currciculum vitae reads like you probably know more about this stuff than all of us in the group.  It will be very interesting talking to you.  Please stay in touch.

Thanks for the interesting retort to my assumption, 

I said, "I am assuming, by hypothesis, that the "fixed carbon in charcoal" is NOT DECOMPOSED by microbes ................".

You say, "YES FIX CARBON IN CHARCOAL WILL BE DECOMPOSED sooner or later, from nature point of view rapidly, but from human point of view slowly."

So, "fixed carbon decays slowly" over time.  That can answer why it seems like carbon stays around a long time in some soils. It just lasts longer in some soils, but decays at different rates on different sites.  Do you think the original "Neo Terra Preta" land reformers may have noticed that?

The ancient Amazonian people were maybe around for ...

"somewhere between 10,000 and a couple of 100s of years, more or less, all depending on the soil condition"

Maybe that's why they continued to make Terra Preta for centuries?  They were seeing it slowly disappear.  So, they threw some more charcoal in to get the effect again, or moved on, to better soil conditions, because the local soil conditions weren't right for making a go of growing crops there.  Look for somewhere where food crops are growing well and start throwing charcoal onto it.  Or, if you find a place with some charcoal on it, probably a place where food crops are growing well, then throw some more charcoal on top of it.  It will just get better with more time, more charcoal, more wastes, more living there with it (with age, with you and your offspring's family trees).  It's a story like someone with an agrarian lifestyle might live.  

This recycling follows a linear progression through time, when considered within the site-specific context.

That's neat.  I like simple linear relations.  You can make simple series of measurements, lay out a graph and an equation on a spreadsheet, and make predictions with them, build them into programs, and run lots of machines and projects with them.  I'd bet you can predict carbon levels in soil over a long period of time with some accuracy.

The effect of the biochemical degradation of charcoal and soil humic material is measured by a ratio of the total organic carbon to the readily oxidizable carbon in the soil sample.  ... This ratio is  the Oxidizable Carbon Ratio.

Do you measure, test, and/or attempt to adjust it (or all of that) with this "Organic Carbon Ratio (OCR =  "total organic carbon (TOC) : readily oxidizable carbon (ROC)" ?

What is a high value for the OCR (one which is found on an existing terraform)?
What does that mean to the carbon balance or the soil climate there?  High OCR is a desert or a mine?

What does a low OCR mean?  Verdant?  Smelly?  Wet?  Poisonous?  Alive?  Dying? Useful for agriculture?  Land with inertia in terms of carbon decay rates?

The rate of biochemical degradation will vary within the specific physical and environmental contexts of the sample.  An age estimate of the organic carbon is determined through a systems formula that accounts for the biological influences of oxygen, moisture, temperature, carbon concentration, and the soil reactivity. 

Damn it, I accidentally SENT the draft before I finished editing my quotes into the previous quotes .... I apologize, Kurttttt...

Let me pick back up ...

This is fascinating news, Edward.  You are saying that the carbon in soil can be given an "age" in this way, a way other than radioactive carbon dating of some of the carbon.  Do you think this systems formula can be used to accurately and verifiably make determinations (predictions) about future carbon content in soil?  Can you effect a real, measurable change, in any one or more of the variables in the formula, within in an real life experiment, and then use predictions from the formula about observable levels or changes of carbon in soil or other changes in the soil climate?

For a "Neo Terra Preta" to get on the ground (as it were), the United Nations group called the "Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) Executive Board needs to make determinations NOW about soil carbon content in the future.  Lots of people want to put charcoal into soil (I'm one of them), because they think it will primarily do two things (the order of importance depends on who you talk to); 1) to sequester carbon out of the atmosphere for a long period of time, and 2) to improve the productivity of agricultural soils.  Predicting future soil carbon content from systems formulas, that relate current inputs/outputs of large biological chemical flows, and can predict future observations is "BIG SCIENCE".  Your work could be an invaluable tool, to engineers trying to make systems that will do this.  It could be an invaluable tool to the CDM Executive Board, who are trying to make determinations (predictions and verifications) about this.

The neat thing is, too, that your formulae seem tailored for "Neo Terra Preta" land reforming.  Predicting future carbon is a already a problem for other carbon sequestration techniques.  But "Neo Terra Preta" as a CER project, could be made predicable and verifiable, if your formulae can accurately predict future soil carbon levels.  Your formula approach also sounds just like something World Banker's and carbon trading brokers can handle; nice slow rates, a stabile, solid, definable performance, that's predicable, measurable, verifiable, and noticeably changeable.  They could maintain carbon in soil banks and in the carbon markets, like it was money in a bank or in a stock market.  I think they would eat that stuff up.  I think I could make a system like that work for me; as an engineer, trying to be a  "Neo Terra Preta" collier.

I would be very grateful, if you could answer anymore of my questions, above, Edward.  Or, if you gave me something to read, to answer my questions.  Thank you for your post and lease come back and talk with us again, soon.


Regards,

Sean K. Barry
Principal Engineer/Owner
Troposphere Energy, LLC
11170 142nd St. N.
Stillwater, MN 55082
(651) 351-0711 (Home/Fax)
(651) 285-0904 (Cell)
sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>
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