[Terrapreta] range fuels

[mmbtupr at aol.com]

     from  Lewis L Smith

FT has been used for decades to make gasoline from coal in South Africa 
and was used in Europe during WW II to make gasoline from wood.

Cordially. ###

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com>
To: Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>; Kelpie Wilson 
<kelpie at kelpiewilson.com>
Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
Sent: Fri, Nov 9  12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] range fuels

Hi Kelpie,
 
I don't know what the catalyst metal alloy is for "synthesis gas" to
Ethanol-CH3CH2OH (EtOH).  "Syngas" to Methanol-CH3OH is easier, I
guess.  I don't know what the liquid fuel that Fischer and Tropsch 
actually
made was either?  Even though Methanol is easier to make (cheaper, 
simpler
catalyst?) than Ethanol, I think Ethanol was chosen over Methanol, 
however,
because EtOH combines with gasoline, it runs in existing internal
combustion engines, it is already in the refueling infrastructure, it 
is the
preferred octane booster in gasoline, it won't make you go blind by 
breathing it
or touching it, and it has a higher BTU content than Methanol.
 
It should be interesting to note though, that transesterification of 
fats
(rapeseed oil, soy bean oil, etc.) to make Methyl-Esters in bio-diesel 
requires
15% Methanol by volume of the bio-diesel produced.  In both cases, 
Methanol
or Ethanol, there is a ~50 cent per gallon tax credit, as well, for 
production
of alcohol fuel additives (in the USA, anyway).
 
There are problems with catalysts like you suggest, that the catalyst 
are
rare metal alloys and such.  There are also problems with "poisoning" 
of
catalysts.  One issue I read about was that it is important for
instance to keep the Methane-CH4 content of the "syngas" low when 
trying to make
Methanol.  Methane-CH4 bonds to the reaction sites on the catalyst,
rendering it useless for making any more Methanol.  That is an example 
of
what "poisoning" is.  When "poisoning" occurs and it usually does at 
some
point, then a new catalyst surface has to be rotated in to the reactor
somehow, and the "poisoned" catalyst surface has to be cleaned or
refreshed.
 
All of the information about what the catalyst is, who developed that
catalyst, how it's "poisoned", how it's refreshed, how the catalytic
surfaces are handled, the temperatures, pressures, and the "syngas" 
composition,
etc. are always proprietary information.  You will never hear any of 
the
companies divulging any of that.  Regardless, when it comes to
thermo-chemical conversion, gasification and FT are the likely normal 
routes, I
think.  The themro-chemical conversion methods are for now, more 
expensive
to do than biochemical conversion of sugars to make Ehtanol.  The 
details
of the costs and the economies of scale, etc. of the processes are the 
trade
secrets.
 
The selection of the products are usually driven primarily by what most
consumers will buy and maybe secondarily by tax incentives.
 
Regards,
 
Sean K. Barry
Principal Engineer/Owner
Troposphere Energy,
LLC
11170 142nd St. N.
Stillwater, MN 55082
(651) 351-0711
(Home/Fax)
(651) 285-0904 (Cell)
sean.barry at juno.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Kelpie Wilson
  To: Sean K. Barry ; Kevin
  Chisholm
  Cc: terrapreta at bioenergylists.org

  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:09
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] range
  fuels

Thanks for the info Sean.  I had always heard that Fischer
   Tropsch made diesel fuel. I guess it can make a variety of liquid 
fuels. These
   guys are smart to go for "cellulosic ethanol" as their first product 
since it
   has had so much publicity already. I can't understand why anyone 
would pursue
  the enzyme-fermentation route when this process is available.
One question
   I have though, is what the catalyst is. If it is a rare heavy metal 
like
  palladium, that would make it less economic.

-Kelpie

At 03:44
  PM 11/8/2007, Sean K. Barry wrote:

  Hi Kevin, Kelpie,
 
I
     don't know exactly what Range Fuels is doing to make ethanol?  But 
I do
     know the basics of "thermal conversion process" which could do 
this. 
     If an "oxygen-blown" gasifier (pyrolysis reactor) is used (versus 
an
     "air-blown" gasifier), then the generated gas is called "synthesis 
gas" (H2,
     CO, CO2, CH4, H2O, trace O2 and others).  With an "air-blown" 
gasifier,
     the resulting gas is called "producer gas" (N2, H2, CO, CO2, CH4, 
H2O, trace
     O2 and others).  These gas mixtures are very similar, "producer 
gas"
    being like "synthesis gas" diluted with Nitrogen gas-N2.
 
Air
    contains ~78% Nitrogen gas-N2 and ~19% Oxygen gas-O2.  Since N2 is
     chemically inert at pyrolysis temperatures, then the N2 passes 
through the
    reactor and dilutes the product gases of the reaction.  When pure
     oxygen is used instead of air as the oxidant, then the resulting 
"synthesis
     gas" has higher concentrations of the fuel gases Hydrogen gas-H2, 
and Carbon
    monoxide-CO, and actually a lower concentration of
    Methane-CH4.
 
Back during World War II, two Swedish scientists,
     Dr. Fischer and Dr. Tropsch developed a method to convert 
"synthesis gas"
     into liquid fuels, like Methanol and Ethanol.  The German army 
harvest
     wood from the Black Forest and made liquid fuels to supply its 
vehicles
    using the process.  This was done in the back of truck! In a
     Fischer-Tropsch reaction "synthesis gas" is heated and injected 
into a
     pressurized chamber that has a metal surface (something like an 
Iron-Cobalt
    alloy) which "catalyzes" this gas-to-liquid conversion.
 
There
     is a company, Rentech, which operates in California, Colorado, 
Montana, and
     Iowa that is using an FT reaction to make synthetic diesel (a 
liquid fuel)
    from "synthesis gas" that is got from gasification of western brown
    coal.   I would say, too, that this is the most like process that
    Range Fuels is using to convert lignin and cellulose from wood into
    ethanol.
 
It is worth noting that when wood is pyrolyzed with
     pure oxygen, that the process can be continued either until only 
ash is left
    or the reactants can be moved out and new feedstock put in.  The
     primary soild reactant is CHARCOAL!  So, pyrolysis and gasification 
of
     wood/cellulose/liginin can have the co-products of gaseous fuels, 
liquid
    fuels, sensible heat, electricity, and
    charcoal.
 
Regards,
 
SKB
 
 



 


  Kelpie Wilson
PO Box 1444
Cave Junction, OR 97523

home
  office phone: 541-592-3083
cell (used only when traveling)
  213-925-1517

For an archive of my writing and reviews of my novel
   Primal Tears, visit 
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