[Terrapreta] TP theft.

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Kevin,

Are there any shards of pottery in the eutrophied lakes in Canada?

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kevin Chisholm<mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net> 
  To: lou gold<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com> 
  Cc: Sean K. Barry<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> ; Terrapreta<mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] TP theft.


  Dear Lou

  lou gold wrote:
  > Hi Sean and All,
  >
  > Since Brazil is a poor place, especially in Amazonian rural areas, TP 
  > most likely does get stolen.
  >
  > However, I recently saw something about "commercial mining" of it that 
  > sounded very responsible. The guy extracted it but left the bottom 
  > 20cm. It would grow "back to full depth" in 20 years. I'm suspecting 
  > that eventually there will be specialty "nursery" plots growing "seed" 
  > or "starter"  TP  for use in other locations, nearby and far away. .
  The above comment has enormous potential implications , if it is true. 
  On the one hand,  it may simply be a lie told by a  devious Terra Preta 
  Miner, (TPM)  so that people don't get worked up when he takes their 
  irreplaceable Terra Preta. Given all that has been said on this list 
  about the char requirement for Terra Preta formation, it is likely that 
  the TPM is a blatant liar. :-)

  On the other hand, if the TPM's observation is substantially true and 
  accurate, it completely changes the fundamental formative mechanism for 
  TP. There is a possibility that the TPM is telling the truth, and that 
  Terra Preta can be formed naturally, and charing of biomass by Man was 
  not an essential step in its creation.

  1: There is a pond in front of where I live. In the Summer, pond weed 
  drifts into a cove, and decomposes anaerobically to give a black goop on 
  the bottom When stirred up, the water turns black. The pond weed is not 
  consumed totally by pond life forms, but rather, a black material is 
  left behind. It could be "black carbon."

  2: In Northern Canada, there are millions of hectares of Humified Peat, 
  where  the  the original sedges and mosses  are decomposed to the point 
  that little or none of their original plant structure  remains. What 
  does remain is a "black carbon-like" material.

  3: Many Farmers drain swampy areas, and start a Market Gardening 
  Operation, because  vegetables grow so very well in the "black earth" 
  that they uncover. Do a Google Search on "Terre Noire", "Terre Noire 
  Canada", and "Black Earth". See also
  > http://www.blackearth.org/History/History.html<http://www.blackearth.org/History/History.html>
  In speaking to a Member of the Historical Society, the Community of 
  Black Earth seems to be built on a eutrophied lake. However, there was 
  indeed an Indian Community well established there, long before the White 
  Settlers came. The water table is very close to the surface, and 
  buildings of any size require pilings for foundation support.

  There is thus reason to hypothesize that Terra Preta was not man made, 
  but rather, is a natural phenomenon.

  It is interesting to note that on Gerhards site
  > http://www.gerhardbechtold.com/TP/Belterra2.php?vers=2<http://www.gerhardbechtold.com/TP/Belterra2.php?vers=2>
  the Terra Preta locations are generally confined to depressions. It 
  could be that these are sinkholes that were eutrophied. As a depression, 
  they would be a great place for the Natives to dispose of their garbage 
  and broken pottery.

  So, it just might be that the Terra Preta Miner has given a fundamental 
  insight into the formative mechanism for Terra Preta.

  If you are interested in pursuing this further, perhaps you could 
  inquire to determine how many of the Terra Preta Sites in your area are 
  in low lying areas with a high water table.

  I would be very interested in, and appreciative of, any comments or 
  observations you can make.

  Best wishes,

  Kevin


  >
  > I think this is a very attractive story for our messaging -- 
  > "sustainable mining" with the TP growing back. It truly is sort of 
  > mind-blowing in terms of standard popular expections about "dirt", and 
  > therefore an attention-getter. And, as TP becomes more known and 
  > valuable, it might be necessary to guard the original Amazonian plots 
  > against theft or irresponsible forms of extraction.
  >
  > Happy messaging to all,
  >
  > Lou
  >
  >
  >
  > On Nov 21, 2007 10:33 PM, Sean K. Barry <sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com> 
  > <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>> wrote:
  >
  >     Hi Lou,
  >      
  >     I think I saw this way back, middle of 200, on a Cornell website ,
  >     or EPRIDA, or Christosph Steiner.  I'll see if I can find it. 
  >     They had a picture and described the soil as so valuable that
  >     thieves come onto TP land and take it away to sell (the illegal
  >     part is its not their land).  It said also that if some TP soil is
  >     left on the ground, that it regenerates, but over time.  It is not
  >     possible, either, to ship TP soil out of Brazil.
  >     If one sat on 2 meters of the stuff, though, you would think one
  >     could mine out the bottom meter and a half and sell it, while
  >     still being able to grow crops.  The world needs a whole lot more
  >     soil turned into TP soil, though, more than all the TP soil you
  >     could ever find in the Amazon rain basin.  We are supposed to turn
  >     France into TP soil many times over!
  >      
  >     Regards,
  >      
  >     SKB
  >
  >         ----- Original Message -----
  >         *From:* lou gold <mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com<mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com>>
  >         *To:* Sean K. Barry <mailto:sean.barry at juno.com<mailto:sean.barry at juno.com>>
  >         *Sent:* Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:56 AM
  >         *Subject:* question
  >
  >         Hi Sean,
  >
  >         Where did you get the idea that lots of terra preta is being
  >         mined illegally in Brazil?
  >         I have only seen positive references about how leaving a depth
  >         of 20cm allows it to
  >         grow back. Have I missed something?
  >
  >         Just asking so that we can all polish our messages.
  >
  >         lou
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > -- 
  > http://lougold.blogspot.com/<http://lougold.blogspot.com/>
  > http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/> 
  > <http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/<http://www.flickr.com/photos/visionshare/sets/>>
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