[Terrapreta] Terra Preta Specifications

[lou gold]

Sure, I agree and know that you all are working on the specifics (which will
also vary according to the circumstance). My point was that carbon amendment
can start right away supported by carbon sequestration credits and that part
of the requirement would be to record and report the results. Think of it as
a gigantic experiment that causes no harm but generates and incredible
amount of data, etc, etc. I think you could start to find out what works,
where and how pretty fast and keep refining it over time.  Everyone learning
together and getting paid for it. What a concept!

On Sat, Apr 19, 2008 at 12:34 AM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
wrote:

> Dear Lou
>
> lou gold wrote:
>
> > Hi Kevin,
> >
> > I just re-read Scott Bidstrup's, Saving the Planet While Saving the
> > Farm. I recommend it to you/. (maybe you already know it?)
> > http://www.bidstrup.com/carbon.htm
> > /
> >
>
> Thanks very much. A very good article.
>
> > /
> > I'm sure that many of the details need to be better understood and
> > worked out but I think he lays down a pretty decent basic picture. Also, my
> > suspicion is that by Terra Preta Nova Sean simply means carbonization of the
> > soil along with some other useful amendments and good practices but I'll let
> > him speak for himself.
> > /
> >
>
> I see his general concept, but in order to take action, one needs to do
> something specific. Without guidance that would come from a recipe or
> specifications, we would all be going in different directions, and we could
> expect very mixed results. We can't simply "put a bunch of char in the soil,
> and hope for the best." Having a recipe or specification would result in
> much more good being accomplished.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> > /
> > hugs,
> >
> > lou
> > /
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:25 PM, Kevin Chisholm <kchisholm at ca.inter.net<mailto:
> > kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
> >
> >    Dear Sean
> >
> >    So that we are all on the same page, could you kindly define or
> >    describe "Terra Preta Nova"?
> >
> >    Could you provide a "Recipe", or a "Specification" so that if we,
> >    in various parts of the world made some, we would have a product
> >    that would be comparable?
> >
> >    With all that has been written, I still don't know what Terra
> >    Preta is, other than the trivial description of "Black earth with
> >    pottery shards." Could you, or anyone on the List provide a
> >    similar "Recipe" or "Specification" for "Old Terra Preta"? Perhaps
> >    there is a URL with sufficient detail such that one could make a
> >    batch of Terra Preta from it.
> >
> >    You suggest making a lot of charcoal and putting it into lots of
> >    soil now.What would you recommend as the addition rate, for
> >    example, in pounds per square foot, or kG per square meter, etc?
> >    Is there anything else that should be added along with teh charcoal?
> >
> >    Thanks very much,
> >
> >    Kevin
> >
> >
> >    Sean K. Barry wrote:
> >
> >        Hi Lou, Michael, et al,
> >         It would be interesting to fell a hardwood in the rainforest
> >        now, in a muddy area, with girdling and fire alone?  Just to
> >        clear an area for sunlight?  With no stone or metal tools?
> >         Then light it a fire on the ground (how?, in parts?) and bury
> >        it?  But to what end would we do this?  To replicate what
> >        ancient Amazonians did?  If that is what they did?  For what
> >        reason would we do this?  Do you see my point?
> >         I do not think we want to consider harvesting old growth
> >        forests anyway now, to make charcoal to put into Terra Preta
> >        Nova soils.  No one hear thinks that is what needs be done and
> >        it's because the ancients did it that way.  I think the most
> >        logical source of biomass feedstock for pyrolysis/gasification
> >        into charcoal and usable energy is biomass that is likely to
> >        decay anyway.  Waste biomass (RFS, MSW, etc) and annual growth
> >        that falls and decays annually anyway from amongst both crops
> >        and other natural plants.  Biomass forms that grow higher tons
> >        of "fixed Carbon" per hectare (fC ha-1) of usable for
> >        pyrolysis feedstock are potential energy crops.  Charcoal
> >        application, fertilizer amendments, and sufficient watering
> >        into energy crop soils might have feedbacks that enhance both
> >        fC ha-1 yields and soil carbon sequestration rates.
> >         Forward looking models for development of Terra Preta Nova,
> >        which includes conversion of biomass to charcoal and
> >        harvesting usable bio-energy, need to consider all charcoal
> >        uses (agricultural benefits/food production enhancement,
> >        carbon sequestration, energy replacement, etc) and high
> >        charcoal production rates needed very soon for some of those
> >        uses.  Specifically, charcoal made for charcoal-in-soil carbon
> >        sequestration will requires perhaps several billion tons per
> >        year (Gt yr-1) of charcoal production within 10-25 years, I
> >        suppose?
> >         Agriculture interest seem as if they cannot figure out a way
> >        how to use it?, or where, or a reason to do making and using
> >        anything near several Gt yr-1 of charcoal right now.  No body
> >        has the "Terra Preta de Indio" recipe and the farmers are all
> >        saying that "... unless it is a proven, economically viable,
> >        agriculturally more productive, profitable benefit product for
> >        me to use, than I'll never use it or do it!"  SO, there is not
> >        a market for any Gt yr-1 of charcoal there, right?  Now what
> >        do we do?
> >         I think the answer to, "Now what do we do?", is to start
> >        making charcoal for Terra Preta Nova development now, anyway.
> >         Do it like we're going to turn the whole world into a Terra
> >        Preta soiled landform, a planet sized TP garden!  We put
> >        charcoal into soil to work now on preventing further GW and
> >        GCC problems later and for the agricultural benefits that we
> >        will learn about along the way.  We will need to do something
> >        like this eventually, anyway, right?  We might as well get
> >        started.  It's going to take years, perhaps more than a
> >        century, to even begin to push back a little against where the
> >        climate is headed now.
> >         There is promise, too, that left untended, GCC could move
> >        into an era of positive feedbacks: Methyl hydrate releases
> >        (thawed CH4) and CO2 releases from the oceans (plant and
> >        animal die offs), Methane gas-CH4 releases from permafrost
> >        wetlands in the northern former Soviet Union, northern Canada
> >        and Alaska, increased N2O concentrations from continued
> >        industrial fertilizer use, adiabatic heating due to less
> >        snow/ice cover on land and oceans, etc.  These positive
> >        feedbacks will accelerate the warming and need to be avoided.
> >         I think we can make positive feedbacks work now to our
> >        advantage, too, in making "Terra Preta Nova", if we increase
> >        the scale of our operations.  Already using MSW and
> >        agricultural residues, that decay anyway, as feedstock for
> >        charcoal is a positive feedback in our desired direction
> >        (removing CO2 from the atmosphere).  It removes some CO2 now
> >        and prevents further CO2 cycling into and out of the
> >        atmosphere for many years into the future.  Improved soils
> >        under charcoal and bio-energy producing crops is another
> >        potential large feedback.  Overall increased plant growth and
> >        consequent CO2 uptake by plants planted in Terra Preta Nova
> >        soils, could also prove to be a large positive feedback
> >        towards and help in lowering the CO2 concentration in the
> >        atmosphere at a faster rate.
> >         Let's make lots of charcoal and put it into lots of soil now!
> >         Regards,
> >         SKB
> >                     ----- Original Message -----
> >           *From:* lou gold <mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com
> >        <mailto:lou.gold at gmail.com>>
> >           *To:* Michael Bailes <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com
> >        <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>>
> >           *Cc:* terra pretta group
> >        <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
> >        <mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
> >           *Sent:* Friday, April 18, 2008 2:11 PM
> >           *Subject:* Re: [Terrapreta] Earthen Kilns Conjecture
> >
> >           I'm not sure of the relevance either but I want to assure
> >        you that
> >           nothing amazing is going on. The life and structure of a large
> >           tree is concentrated in the outer layers. Hollow trees are
> >        quite
> >           natural.
> >
> >           On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Michael Bailes
> >           <michaelangelica at gmail.com
> >        <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>
> >        <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com
> >        <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >               Australian Aboriginals encouraged the burning of large
> >        gums so
> >               that a hollow was made though the centre of the gum.
> >               Amazingly gums survive this traeatment and live on.
> >               The hollows became great nesting places for native
> >        animals and
> >               therefore convenient larders for fresh food for the
> >        aborigines.
> >
> >               I am not sure how this is relevant
> >               But it would be interesting to set alight to a rainforest
> >               hardwood tree to see if it formed ash or charcoal.
> >               Michael B
> >
> >               __
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://lougold.blogspot.com
> > http://flickr.com/visionshare/sets
> > http://youtube.com/my_videos
> >
>
>
>


-- 
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