[Terrapreta] Ice-age anyone?

[Sean K. Barry]

Hi Larry, et al,

Yes, we are in a race, I agree.  We are losing now.  Without a very big effort very soon to combat GW and GCC and the elimination of fossil fuel use, then we will lose altogether.  The climate will race on and eventually "run away" to a place where most of us and most other currently living species will perish.

Sitting on your hands and wondering, still, if I (or the many many 1000s others seeing and saying this) are right or not, .... WON'T DO ANYMORE.

Regards,

SKB
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Larry Williams<mailto:lwilliams at nas.com> 
  To: Ron Larson<mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net> ; Miles Tom<mailto:terrapreta at bioenergylists.org> 
  Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Ice-age anyone?


  Ron (and all)-------If there is any validity to this article, "Melting Methane, A Storehouse of Greenhouse...<http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,547976,00.html>", we have a problem of the first order. This has been my worst fear with greenhouse gas emissions.


  We should have a better idea of the situation by the end of this summer, 2008, as to what is happening to the temperature of the waters off the Siberian coastline. I have seen NASA temperature maps of the arctic coastline indicating that there has been a significant increase in temperature of up to 5 degrees C on the Arctic coastline. I didn't save those pictures and am unable to find them again. 


  A portion of this list, I subscribe to this thought, is very interested in moving forward with the production of charcoal for use on agricultural land. It seems that the dual characteristics of burying charcoal, the potential for a significant increase in plant growth and the sequestration of carbon, are inseparable. If charcoal is, as in my experience, able to become reservoir for microbes and nutrients<http://www.flickr.com/photos/rchaard/336553821/in/set-72157594444994347/> then the soil accumulates carbon in a greater amount than the charcoal that was buried. It's an added bonus for storing atmospheric carbon in the form of charcoal. One example of this event occurs with the production of glomalin, see: "Glomalin: Hiding Place for a Third of the World's Stored Soil Carbon<http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/sep02/soil0902.htm>".


  In my work, I find buried charcoal in compacted soils where there are no evidence of microbial activity or root association. Buried charcoal needs to be placed in a good growing situation. It is absurd to consider dumping charcoal down a mine shaft as a solution for sequestration unless it holds toxins. Even then there are not enough mine shafts to hold a significant amount of charcoal.


  We may be forced to bury charcoal very soon, regardless if our individual growing techniques towards achieving Terra Preta nova work or not. I have had superb growth in one test plot. It seems that we need to increase the "production momentum" for making charcoal less we fail to match the release of gas hydrates (methane) from ocean deposits. We are in a race to see if we can offset the release of greenhouse gases with the burial of charcoal in soils that can grow food.


  Meditation does help to settle the nerves when I read an article like "Melting Methane...".


  Do notice the moments of pleasure and joy in each daily-------Larry




  Background References:
  Gas (Methane) Hydrates -- A New Frontier (Sept 1992)
  @  http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/gas-hydrates/title.html<http://marine.usgs.gov/fact-sheets/gas-hydrates/title.html>


  Methane Explosion Warmed the Prehistoric Earth, Possible Again (Dec 10 2001)
  @ http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20011212methane.html  <http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/topstory/20011212methane.html>



  -------------------

  April 17, 2008



  MELTING METHANE<http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,547976,00.html>
  A Storehouse of Greenhouse Gases Is Opening in Siberia

  By Volker Mrasek
  Researchers have found alarming evidence that the frozen Arctic floor has started to thaw and release long-stored methane gas. The results could be a catastrophic warming of the earth, since methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. But can the methane also be used as fuel?



  ---------snip----------








  --------------------------------

  On Apr 27, 2008, at 2:35 AM, Ron Larson wrote:


    To the Denier-type Terra Preta List Members (those who believe in global warming, read on only for your education):

        1.  Kevin last night said:  I am saying that there is a valid basis to question some of the data. (See below.) and then said: For balance, see: 
    http://climatescience.blogspot.com/2007/11/ipcc-dissent-by-roger-helmer-mep.html<about:blank> When you have both sides of the story, chances are you can have a better understanding of the problem.  
        There were no other references cited, but I apparently missed two earlier citations from Kevin. I will not now go back to either, unless there is a request I do so.

        2.  I have visited maybe 20-30 such sites.  This citation led me to the least scientific denier-site I have found yet.  Roger Helmer is a Member of the European Parliament, with a background in business, none that I could see to qualify him on global warming (see http://www.rogerhelmer.com/<http://www.rogerhelmer.com/>).  The above site contains a short warming-denier letter from Helmer, with nothing scientific in it.   I did not find anything scientific on the climatescience site.

        3.  The Helmer site showed me that he is the honorary chair of the The Freedom Association, which covers a number of Conservative Party causes and a small amount on climate from the warming-denier perspective.  Going there, I found one 3-page fact sheet (http://www.tfa.net/pdfs/cc001.pdf<http://www.tfa.net/pdfs/cc001.pdf>  ) on climate  -  no references, no author.  The last two sentences (which are typical) state: - Statistically, global temperatures have been static or falling since 1998.  -Between 2003 and 2005 the oceans suddenly cooled, losing 20% of the heat they had gained in the previous 50 years.

       4.   I ask that warming-deniers on this list send me any source which you feel scientifically substantiates either of these last two sentences.  Repeating the claim won't count as scientific.

      5.    This web-exercise was a perfect example of this list's big lie problem (which lie I am not attributing to Kevin).  I remain hopeful that I can get something serious to debate.

        
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