[Terrapreta] Vinegar

[Kevin Chisholm]

Dear Mark

Mark Ludlow wrote:
> Thanks, Kevin!
>
> The nearest analogy I can raise is the smoking of foods for purposes of
> preservation. In my experience, at any rate, this has been accomplished with
> the equivalent of low-temperature pyrolysis and while the smoke from a
> smoldering fire is not overtly toxic to humans, it does seem to have an
> affect on the bacterial activity in the meat or fish being smoked (yes, the
> customary salting also lowers the water activity). If used as a soil
> amendment, it seems reasonable to assume that there might be a similar
> effect on soil flora.
>   

OK.... Is it perhaps possible that "the bad bugs" that spoil food and 
make it toxic to humans are also the same kind of "bad guys" that are 
toxic to the "good bugs" in the soil?

This would be consistent with what seems to be observed: Smoke, and low 
temperature pyrolysis products seem to be killing off organisms that are 
toxic to both humans and plant life.

Again, this suggests the possibility of a "maximum Safe Pyrolysis 
Temperature", above which the pyrolysis products are damaging to both 
humans and plant life.

Note also that "Cold Smoked Salmon" is still an acceptable product, but 
that the use of smouldering peat for drying of Malt, used for producing 
Fine Scotch Whiskey, has been banned for carcinogenicity reasons.

Obviously, I am making some great big leaps of illogicality here, but 
the concept sure sounds good to me, at this stage, as a hypothesis for 
future work! :-)

Best wishes,

Kevin
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Chisholm [mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net] 
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 6:49 AM
> To: mark at ludlow.com
> Cc: 'Terrapreta'
> Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Vinegar
>
> Dear Mark
>
> Mark Ludlow wrote:
>   
>> List:
>>
>> I realize that acetic acid is a distillate of pyrolysis but the Japanese
>>     
> Web
>   
>> Pages concerning the skid-mounted charcoal systems imply that condensing
>>     
> the
>   
>> pyrolysis gases yields some very useful or beneficial distillates. Isn't
>> there also a condensation of long-chain hydrocarbons as well as, possibly,
>> some aromatics, that really aren't that beneficial to Living Things?
>>   
>>     
>
> Very good points!! However, "long chain hydrocarbons" per se are not a 
> problem... lignin is an extremely long chained hydrocarbon. The problem 
> is "killer compounds", whatever they are, and what they kill.
>
> I don't know what kills what, but it is conceivable that "low 
> temperature tars and pyrolysis products" could  kill organisms that were 
> harmful to plant life and that "high temperature tars and pyrolysis 
> products" would kill off beneficial organisms.
>
> Japanese work, work in Indonesia(?) as reported by Roger Samson, and the 
> India Work reported by Gerrit suggests that such "low temperature 
> pyrolysis products" can indeed be beneficial to growth. On the other 
> hand, creosote (high temperature pyrolysis products) have been used to 
> extend rot resistance of fence posts, suggesting that they contain 
> compounds that interfere with breakdown of vegetative matter. It may be 
> that there is an "important reaction temperature", below which the 
> results are beneficial, and above which, they start to become detrimental
>
> I find the India Work, as reported by Gerrit 
> (http://www.annadana.com/actu/new_news.cgi?id_news=159) to be extremely 
> interesting and important! They have developed an "Agricultural 
> Practise" that is "culturally appropriate". More specifically, they 
> worked with the resources available (basic knowledge and local material 
> resources) and the existing culture (eg, making use of pots that would 
> be disposed of anyway), to solve a local problem that needed solving. 
> They got a real and palpable result to reward their efforts, ensuring 
> that they will continue the practise after teh Developers are gone.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>   
>> Mark
>>
>>
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