[Terrapreta] Char sizes

[MFH]

Larry,

 

I'm suggesting that the mixer should work if turned into a mini "ball mill",
i.e. add half a dozen granite or similar rocks of a pound weight or more and
let it run until they thump the lumps into granules, then pick out the
rocks. I did something similar years ago when I need to reduce lumps of
pumice (golf ball to tennis ball size) to a fine powder. The mixer at least
reduced to pieces no larger than a pea, and then we used domestic blenders.
But it was a small experiment. Pumice is harder than char.

 

I'm impressed at the lengths you have gone to prove the point, including
peeing on the pile. Hopefully this was in the back and not the front yard. I
am reminded of the trials I did recently into a composting-worm based
domestic sewage treatment system, which incorporated a 200 litre drum full
of worms and layers of media, set up not far from the house. The tricky bit
was mounting the step ladder to the throne on top to add some more material
for the process. I'd suggest that this is not a suburban exercise. 

 

I was also interested in your comments on the char still being dry after
some time in the soil despite rain and the soil moisture. Throw lumps of
fresh char on water and they will float for quite long periods. This is also
similar to pumice, which can float on the sea for a year or more after a
volcanic eruption. I suspect that this may be related to the surface tension
of the water and the sizes of the pores in the char, and that urine acts as
a sort of surfactant. I don't have any char bits at home but next weekend
I'll float some lumps on water and (a) add some pee, and (b) in a separate
bucket add some detergent, and compare against a third untreated bucket.

 

In a garden situation, if for example NPK fertiliser is added at the same
time as the char as seems to be generally recommended, then the N would act
also as a surfactant. 

 

However, this raises a couple of queries:

 

a)       from a soil fertility viewpoint, there may be little advantage in
adding char to dry and nutrient-poor grasslands

b)       even in reasonably fertile and active soil, are the bacteria and
fungi and other beneficial creatures really going to occupy and take
advantage of the added char in a short period of time, e.g. 6-12 months. I
am sceptical.

c)       However, in the excellent record of an interview with Elaine Ingham
that David Yarrow sent around on the 2nd May, she states quite clearly that
"work at Ohio University shows that you can break up a hardpan at 4" in 6
weeks just by getting the right kind of fungi into that soil."  This would
require a fungi population explosion of substantial magnitude, but it proves
that it can happen. So maybe I shouldn't be sceptical.

d)       However, much will depend on the right conditions. I doubt if just
adding raw charcoal will in itself be the fertility solution. Add it to
compost first, pee on it, mix it with animal manure, add to worm castings -
I'm sure that any of these will enhance the char and speed up the
rehabilitation process.

 

Interesting stuff, Max H

 

PS - just noticed your Bellingham location and remembered that a long time
ago when I had some pretences of being a sailor I had the Bellingham Bell
Company make a small bell with the name of the boat cast in. The boat is
long gone but I still have the bell somewhere.  M

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: Larry Williams [mailto:lwilliams at nas.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 7:31 PM
To: MFH
Cc: Terra Preta; bakaryjatta
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char sizes

 

Max-------Richard Haard tried the cement
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/rchaard/396830225/in/set-72157594444994347/>
mixer on some charcoal that we made and found it to hard to break up. For
that batch of charcoal the "landscaper two-step" (stomp-stomp) was used on a
concrete floor to greater effect. Since then we have observed that charcoal
that has been "wetted" allows the charcoal, on most pieces, to break apart
fairly easy with one's fingers. No, we will not used our fingers to do the
next cord-plus batch of charcoal. I need to try wetting more charcoal in
different ways to get a sense of what I like best. The wetting process, I
believe, is an important part of the results that I had.

 

Over a period of eight months I plucked pieces of charcoal from the Weber
grill and threw the pieces in a pile on the ground (well rotted wood chips)
on a weekly basis. This occurred over three maritime seasons, two of which
were wet. With a minimum of human urine (three or four times) used as
fertilizer, the charcoal and charred wood laid on the ground. I was
impressed with the rich human scent when the small pile was pick-up and
transfered to the garden bed. I had no idea the strength of urine... the
rain did not wash the urine away. The scent indicated to me that the
charcoal had absorbed some urine and it is possible that it help to wet the
charcoal. 

 

During the early spring Richard and I dug around in this garden bed and
found charcoal that was still dry. Rain water and soil had not saturated the
piece of charcoal. This piece of charcoal may have not laid on the ground
but came from the Weber. Again, this points to something else that assisted
in the wetting process... urine? Bellingham gets around 35" (90 cm) per
year.

 

Yes, I will get more serious about recording data. Numbers are other's
strong point. This is a fun exercise to work on and who knows we may help to
lower the percentage of atmospheric CO2. I will sleep on that thought... be
well-------Larry

 

 

 

-----------------------------

On May 6, 2008, at 1:19 AM, MFH wrote:





Larry - many thanks for all the excellent photos. Some of your results like
the swiss chard are stunning.

 

Looks like a small concrete mixer in the background of one of the photos. If
a couple of river stones weighing a few pounds/kilos were added to e load of
char, this should pulverise it nicely in a few minutes.

 

Do you have any data that compares biomass weight of plants from a char plot
vs from an un-charred plot?

 

Max H

 

 

  _____  

From: Larry Williams [mailto:lwilliams at nas.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 6 May 2008 5:50 PM
To: MFH
Cc: Terra Preta
Subject: Re: [Terrapreta] Char sizes

 

Max and list members-------With the learned folks on this list, I really
need a comment or two on whether this set
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/rchaard/336553821/in/set-72157594444994347/>
of pictures represent an effective component to the Terra Preta nova concept
that is being explored in the temperate Pacific Northwest.

 

Do note that the soil was/ is very high in organics and has been so for
around 12 years. I have no way of knowing if Dr. Wardle tests apply to this
situation or not. I do know that the Swiss Chard above these chunks of
charcoal was 42" high. The largest that I have ever seen in this garden or
anywhere else. This is low fired charcoal made in the presence of wood smoke
and sizzling meat. Some on this list may remember the Weber charcoal claim.

 

The garden soil was as rich as I could provide. And yes, I blew the second
year's result, I believe, with to much lime when I have never used lime
before. Do look at the link provided. Your gardener-------Larry

 

 

-------------------------

On May 5, 2008, at 6:37 PM, MFH wrote:






I suspect that this has a bearing on the effectiveness of the added char,
e.g. the available surface area for a 1mm char particle is likely to be
relatively much greater than for a piece of char the size of a golf ball.

 

 

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