[Terrapreta] Your input needed: "Soil health" at Roundtable on Sustainable Biofuels

[Kevin Chisholm]

Dear Lou

lou gold wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Don't you think we agree on the need to tie the four together?

That is where I think we disagree. I think that we specifically SHOULD 
NOT tie them together. Let them each rise or fall on their own merits.
>
> If they are separated (as you point out) there will be no biochar.

Waste biomass, on pyrolysis, can yield biomass char. This biochar has 
(at least) two uses... charcoal as fuel, charcoal as a soil amendment. 
What happens if I can sell charcoal for fuel (or other uses) at $300 per 
tonne, and if a Farmer can only afford to pay me $50 per tonne for 
biochar to add to soil? Are we to stop selling biochar to energy (or 
other) applications because the Farmer will not pay more than $50 per 
tonne? The purpose of this List is to find ways to promote char 
additions to the soil, if it is sensible to do so, NOT to attempt to 
regulate the biochar industry.
> That's why I said they needed to be tied together. I didn't mean to 
> imply they they were (automatically) tied together.

And that is why I feel they specifically SHOULD NOT be tied together. We 
(at least I) don't know what a Farmer can afford to pay for biochar to 
add to the soil. Perhaps "New Terra Preta" is uneconomic. If it was 
uneconomic, then tying the development of a biochar industry to 
additions to soil would kill it dead.

Perhaps they might work out wonderfully well together. For example, sell 
big pieces of charcoal to the heating market, and sell the fines into 
the soil amendment market. I do not know how things will want to "shake 
out", and accordingly, I think it would be a bad thing to "tie them 
together".

If you want to encourage the use of biochar for soil amendment purposes, 
then work on getting a subsidy to encourage the use of biochar for soil 
additions. Imagine how people would be racing to their retorts if the 
Gummint was giving a subsidy equivalent to the subsidy now being given 
to support ethanol!

Best wishes,

Kevin
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Kevin Chisholm 
> <kchisholm at ca.inter.net <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Lou
>
>
>     lou gold wrote:
>
>         I think we totally agree that the solution takes the form of
>         tying biofuel production to biochar, waste management and soil
>         restoration. Otherwise it will be just another "new variable"
>         binge as fossil fuel was.
>
>
>     I certainly don't agree with that at all. There are 4 issues here:
>     1: Biofuel
>     2: Biochar
>     3: Waste Management
>     4: Soil restoration.
>
>     What happens if someone wants to make ethanol from cellulose?
>     There is no biochar, and there is no soil restoration component.
>
>     What happens if the economics of adding biochar to soil are not
>     favourable?
>
>     On the other hand, they may very well want to work together in an
>     economically supportive manner. At the present, I just don't know.
>     Perhaps others know, but I don't.
>
>     Best wishes,
>
>     Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>         On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Michael Bailes
>         <michaelangelica at gmail.com <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com
>         <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
>
>
>                 BIG ENERGY
>                OK
>            I just get the feeling that the hysterical anti-biofuels
>         stuff is
>            being orchestrated, like the tobacco lobby.
>            Certainly there have been some early 'cock-ups' and
>         subsiding corn
>            ethanol is a bit stupid.
>            (But the more everyone winges about Western- USA, EU, Japan,
>            Korea, Aust.-subsidies the more things stay the same).
>            Bio-fuels *have *to be a stop-gap measure for the planet,
>         till we
>            invent something better.
>            Unfortuanely the 'bum rap' biofuels are getting in the
>         States is
>            rubbing off on sugar-cane ethanol here.  Only one or two states
>            have mandated 10% ethanol and we do not have our own souce
>         of fuel
>            oil. It is all imported.
>            Biofuels have the *potential *to take our fuel supplies out
>         of the
>            hands of a dozen companies/counties /people and making
>            countless-thousand, little businesses and happy farmers.
>            m :twocents:
>
>
>
>
>                It's important to note that the subsidies (or tariffs)
>         for US
>                ethanol go to both oil companies and corn farming.
>         Today, the
>                NY Times editorialized against continued support for US
>         corn
>                ethanol:
>         http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/opinion/11sun1.html?hp
>
>                On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 4:35 PM, Michael Bailes
>                <michaelangelica at gmail.com
>         <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>
>         <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com
>         <mailto:michaelangelica at gmail.com>>>
>
>                wrote:
>
>                    You may be interested in this
>                  
>          http://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/11716-what-plants-might-grown-just-bio.html
>
>                    Dynamotive is producing Bio-oil from pyrolysis and is
>                    experimenting with it as a soil
>         amendment-fertiliser-additive
>                    Michael
>
>                    BIG OIL does not like biofuels; Do they?
>
>                    2008/5/1 Laurens Rademakers
>         <lrademakers at biopact.com <mailto:lrademakers at biopact.com>
>                    <mailto:lrademakers at biopact.com
>         <mailto:lrademakers at biopact.com>>>:
>
>
>                        Hi,
>                        I'm part of the Roundtable on Sustainable
>         Biofuels (at
>                        the Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne's
>         Energy
>                        Center), which is developing social,
>         environmental and
>                        other sustainability criteria for biofuels. It
>         does so
>                        in a set of discussion groups
>
>
>
>                    _______________________________________________
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>         <mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>
>                    <mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org
>         <mailto:Terrapreta at bioenergylists.org>>
>
>                  
>          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
>                    http://terrapreta.bioenergylists.org
>                    http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>
>                --        http://lougold.blogspot.com
>                http://flickr.com/visionshare/sets
>                http://youtube.com/my_videos
>
>
>
>            --    Michael the Archangel
>
>            "Politicians will never solve The Problem;
>            because they don't realise they are The Problem.".
>            -Robert ( Bob ) Parsons 1995
>
>
>
>
>         -- 
>         http://lougold.blogspot.com
>         http://flickr.com/visionshare/sets
>         http://youtube.com/my_videos
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> http://lougold.blogspot.com
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